Skepticism (paranormal, miracles, Articles, witchcraft, cross)

[Mr Spinkles]

pw-- There's nothing unskeptical about being open to the existence of something if there is evidence that suggests a reasonable possibility...the "sea monsters" like the giant squid you talked about fall into that category. About the Bermuda Triangle-- if anything, the scientific explanation of the sinking ships discounts the paranormal vortexes and alien abductions believed to be properties of the Triangle even more than an absence thereof.

Anyway, I really liked your post up until the bigfoot/yeti part...you're "not sure" they still live around humans?? Good grief! *slaps forehead*

I don't have any knowledge of Giganthopithicus, so I'll have to hear you out on this....from my limited understanding it seems unlikely that an ancient encounter with a giant ape was the true start of the bigfoot legend. The whole thing began with some imagination and clever hoaxes a little over a century ago, according to http://www.skepdic.com/bigfoot.html . And the Yeti is probably a grizzly.

You would suggest that the legend began with an ancient but real encounter of some sort, while I think it more probable that it began with a little trickery and imagination, and relatively recently. After all, if a legend can thrive (with sightings and so forth) even after the extinction of Giganthopithicus, what makes you so sure the birth of the legend required a human encounter with a real great ape in the first place? The same goes for the Yeti. At the very least, I'm just glad you at least used the word "legend". And you used "Mr"

Can you provide evidence that would link an ancient Native American encounter with the legend we know today? Like I said, I thought the legend we know began relatively recently, but I'll hear you out.

[painted wolf]

I'm afraid the only 'evidence' I can give right now is from our Oral histories.
Here is one example of a possible meeting. The Cheyenne (from a 1905 storyteller) tell of a race of Hairy people who are discribed as very strong and shy. According to the tale the Cheyenne met them during thier migration from thier origional homelands in the north, but that they eventually dissapeared for unkown reasons.

Anyway, on to Gigantopithecus:
http://www.wynja.com/arch/gigantopithecus.html
http://www.uiowa.edu/~nathist/Site/giganto.html

I will concede that the modern Bigfoot/yeti legends are the result of hoaxes and wishfull thinking on the part of the believers. I just find it fun that thier may be a kernel of truth to the tales.

Perhaps if not a sighting of a living remnant population of animal it was the discovery of fossil bones that lead to the Yeti/Bigfoot tales. After all it was the presance of fossil elephants on the Mediteranian islands that most likely lead to the legends of the cyclops. The people of asia were always big on thier 'dragon bones'.

Again I'm not going to hold my breath on the Bigfoot/Yeti

wa:do

[Mr Spinkles]

Fair enough, pw.

I read a very interesting article in Skeptic magazine about supposed UFO sightings in medieval paintings. Religious symbology, or alien visitors? Clouds, or flying saucers? Check out this website to see the paintings and the claims being made: http://www.dudeman.net/siriusly/ufo/art.shtml

One thing to keep in mind...if they were UFO's, we have no reason to believe any of the painters actually SAW any of the things they depict in their work. Besides, the images may appear startling to us, but back then there were a lot of religious symbols which we modern audiences wouldn't understand....holy clouds emitting light are religious symbols, not UFO's. Those of you who are familiar with the Bible will probably be able to see the symbology involved.

[Ceridwen018]

"Symbology? Well. Now that Captain Numbskull here has relinquished his rein, it seems we have an heir to the throne. I belive the word you were looking for is symbolism." --Boondock Saints (har, har)

That site was very interesting. I can see how in some of the paintings, the UFO looking objects could very well have simply been odd renditions of dieties, but in some others...a flying disk with little tractor beam looking things coming down from it...lol, I don't know how much more black and white you can get!

[Mr Spinkles]

symbology (noun) The use of symbols. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=symbology har har indeed!

The flying disks are sylized clouds....in that time period, clouds were often depicted as literal platforms for angels. And the beams coming from them symbolize God's light shining forth.

[Ceridwen018]

That's what the aliens want you to think...

Hehe, it reminds me of The Life of Brian when he gets picked up by aliens. Any correlation, you think?

[painted wolf]

You don't have to go far to change clouds into UFO's... There is a type of cloud formation that is fairly common to my area that looks like many discriptions of a classic UFO.

here are some pictures of lenticular clouds taken by the Meterology dept. of Plymouth State University.
http://vortex.plymouth.edu/lenticular1.html
http://vortex.plymouth.edu/lenticular3.html
and this one just because it has a nice shot of my town
http://vortex.plymouth.edu/len03.jpg

this one has a nice pic of a Lenticular cloud with an almost comet like tail
http://www.shelltown.com/~alex/doctank/lenticu.html

another intersting weather phenomina is ball lightning. Floating orbs of 'fire' that could also have been mistaken for UFO phenomina. Sometimes it clings to objects in which case it is also known as St. Elmo's fire. While the why's and the how's of 'ball lightning' cant be completly explained it is a very interesting bit of weather.

some links on ball lightning:
http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20020209/bob8.asp
http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/tesla/ballgtn.html

And again thier is the usual Comets, Meteorites and so on for why UFO sightings happen.

wa:do

[painted wolf]

ok. Just because its fun, here is a recent news story on a cryptid hunt.
They are hoping to find the 'little man of the forest' of Sumatra. Possibly a type of hominid or upright walking ape.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...er/3631256.stm

and last year in Siberia they apparently found a 'yeti foot' that is still being analyzed, it looks like it may be of a bear to me, but see what you think.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3175926.stm

wa:do

[Mr Spinkles]

Hoax, bear foot, or other? I'll stake half my chips on hoax!