Infinite Potential (experience, God, verse)

[Nick Soapdish]

We can imagine that it is possible that nothing exists, so there is a big question as to why anything exists, regardless of what you think that anything is. This can become a mind racking problem, because of that possibility of nothing existing. Assuming we agree that something exists, the next question is what is fundamental about that existence.

One popular answer suggests that reality is mechanical. At its most basic level, there is substance (material) and rules for how this substance exists (physics). My problem with this option is that it seems there are many alternative ways the rules and substances could be configured, and there can be no explanation as to how or why our version exists and not some other version. Perhaps the best answer is that it exists as it does because it can exist that way.

The way that makes sense to me is that reality is an all-being. Instead of nothing existing (a zero potential), there is an infinite potential--a presense which is all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-creative. This is the opposite of nothing existing. Things that we see and experience are manifested within this infinite-being.

[Original Freak]

We can imagine that it is possible that nothing exists, so there is a big question as to why anything exists, regardless of what you think that anything is. This can become a mind racking problem, because of that possibility of nothing existing.

We can only imagine nothing existing because it's an actuall imposibility. Even if all matter stoped existing it would still be around in the form of energy. (Something to do with that whole E=mc2 thing)

A better question is why do you think there has to be a reason for anything to exist?

[michel]

This sounds like one of those horribly confusing threads where I end up not knowing anything about anything; I think I'll go and have a cold shower............

[Nick Soapdish]

Originally Posted by Original Freak

We can only imagine nothing existing because it's an actuall imposibility. Even if all matter stoped existing it would still be around in the form of energy. (Something to do with that whole E=mc2 thing)

That is not what I mean. By nothing, I mean no matter, no energy, no space, no time, no big bang. Nothing.

This thinking originates from the argument that God is necessary to create the Universe and the counter argument that something is then needed to create God. This leads to the question, why does anything exist at all?

My opinion is that God's existance is the opposite of nothing existing. Instead of zero potential it is infinite potential.

Originally Posted by Original Freak

A better question is why do you think there has to be a reason for anything to exist?

It seems natural to ask. If I see lightning for the first time, I might ask, where did that come from?

You claim that we have these rules (e.g. e=mc2) and that's just the way it is. Is it not reasonable to ask where they came from, or how they came into existance?

[Original Freak]

who said they had to 'come into existance'. It's completely possible they've always been in existance.

This thinking originates from the argument that God is necessary to create the Universe and the counter argument that something is then needed to create God. This leads to the question, why does anything exist at all?

Then who creates God. If god doesn't need be created, why does everything else?

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by atofel

We can imagine that it is possible that nothing exists, so there is a big question as to why anything exists, ...

The bigger question is why you insist that your why-question is meaningful and/or answerable.

Originally Posted by atofel

The way that makes sense to me is that reality is an all-being. Instead of nothing existing (a zero potential), there is an infinite potential--a presense which is all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-creative.

And on what basis does this "make sense to you"?

[Nick Soapdish]

Originally Posted by Original Freak

who said they had to 'come into existance'. It's completely possible they've always been in existance.

It is not a question of time, and whether there was a point in time that e=mc2 did not exist. In fact, we can ask how is it that time and space itself exists. Or, why are there three dimensions of space and not four or five. Having a material Universe with a specific configuration leaves us wondering what is so special about this configuration that makes it exist.

Originally Posted by Original Freak

Then who creates God. If god doesn't need be created, why does everything else?

Because God is the opposite of nothing existing. He is infinite potential. To me this is the most reasonable alternative to nothing existing, because it is absolute and not open to the shoulder shrugging we have with a saying something exists, and that something is based on these rules that just are the way they are.

[Tawn]

Originally Posted by atofel

We can imagine that it is possible that nothing exists, so there is a big question as to why anything exists, regardless of what you think that anything is. This can become a mind racking problem, because of that possibility of nothing existing. Assuming we agree that something exists, the next question is what is fundamental about that existence.

Im really diggin this Atofel. I think I understand what youre on about.
However, CAN we actually imagine nothingness? Its mind-boggling..

One popular answer suggests that reality is mechanical. At its most basic level, there is substance (material) and rules for how this substance exists (physics). My problem with this option is that it seems there are many alternative ways the rules and substances could be configured, and there can be no explanation as to how or why our version exists and not some other version. Perhaps the best answer is that it exists as it does because it can exist that way.

Im gonna have to frubal ya for this stuff..

The way that makes sense to me is that reality is an all-being. Instead of nothing existing (a zero potential), there is an infinite potential--a presense which is all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-creative. This is the opposite of nothing existing. Things that we see and experience are manifested within this infinite-being.

Ack. You were going great and then you had to bring in the 'G' answer.. lol
The problem I think with this reasoning is that youre essentially filling in our lack of knowledge with a fix-all solution. Im not content to accept an answer which really isnt justified. Yes it solves the problem - but its like putting 'Ask the best mathematician in the world' on your maths exam.
Have you considered alternative dimension theory as an answer? Perhaps every single concieveable way that matter could behave and act has been played out in a infinite number of alternative dimensions?
I mean, it could just be a remarkable co-incidence? Who really knows?
I dont. ..and because I dont, im not going to say God either.. some things are just beyond us.

[Ormiston]

Originally Posted by Tawn

Im really diggin this Atofel. I think I understand what youre on about.
However, CAN we actually imagine nothingness? Its mind-boggling..
Im gonna have to frubal ya for this stuff..
Ack. You were going great and then you had to bring in the 'G' answer.. lol
The problem I think with this reasoning is that youre essentially filling in our lack of knowledge with a fix-all solution. Im not content to accept an answer which really isnt justified. Yes it solves the problem - but its like putting 'Ask the best mathematician in the world' on your maths exam.
Have you considered alternative dimension theory as an answer? Perhaps every single concieveable way that matter could behave and act has been played out in a infinite number of alternative dimensions?
I mean, it could just be a remarkable co-incidence? Who really knows?
I dont. ..and because I dont, im not going to say God either.. some things are just beyond us.

What about the idea that this is the ONLY way existance could have played itself out. Sure, we can imagine a different existance, but we could also make up laws of the universe that don't exist either. I mean, the universe is very exact mathematically; why can't it be very exact to the point of one possibility?

[Nick Soapdish]

Excellent responses!

Originally Posted by Tawn

However, CAN we actually imagine nothingness? Its mind-boggling..

Agreed. I think it is a matter of us imagining that such a thing is possible, not actually visualizing it. Just like infinity, we can understand the concept, but cannot visualize it (infinity is the inverse of zero).

Originally Posted by Tawn

The problem I think with this reasoning is that youre essentially filling in our lack of knowledge with a fix-all solution. Im not content to accept an answer which really isnt justified. Yes it solves the problem - but its like putting 'Ask the best mathematician in the world' on your maths exam.

It may appear so (or I may be blind to it), but I am just taking the inverse of nothingness.

Originally Posted by Tawn

Have you considered alternative dimension theory as an answer? Perhaps every single concieveable way that matter could behave and act has been played out in a infinite number of alternative dimensions?

Frubals back to you for an excellent suggestion. It is basically saying that all consistent logical structures exist, and our Universe is simply one instance of a logically consistent structure.

This reason I don't believe this goes back to my rejection of a mechanical reality, which is based on my perception of my self, freewill and consciousness. It may seem like I keep resorting to this topic, however, this perception contributed significantly to driving me away from my materialist beliefs.

Originally Posted by Ormiston

What about the idea that this is the ONLY way existance could have played itself out. Sure, we can imagine a different existance, but we could also make up laws of the universe that don't exist either. I mean, the universe is very exact mathematically; why can't it be very exact to the point of one possibility?

I suppose it depends on the definition of Universe. Certainly, we can program mini-Universes on a computer with different laws. Take Wolfram's work with Cellular Automata for example.