Does a Person Exist at the Moment of Conception? (moral, abortion)

[Bright-ness' Shadow]

From an article by Farrell Till found here

Life begins at conception: This has almost been a mantra that is chanted by those who oppose abortion, but it is a scientifically incorrect belief. Life really begins before an actual pregnancy occurs. An ovum, for example, is alive in the ovary before it is expelled into a fallopian tube to wait for a possible rendezvous with the sperm cell that will fertilize it. That sperm cells are alive is obvious to anyone who has ever watched them "swimming" under a microscope. This is all true

In zoology a chimera is an animal which has (at least) two different populations of cells, which are genetically distinct and which originated in different zygotes In biology, a zygote is the result of fertilization. That is, two haploid cells--usually (but not always) a male sperm cell and a female ovum or ovule--merge into a single diploid cell called the zygote. The zygote then undergoes multiple cell divisions in gametic and sporic meioses (see biological life cycles) to become an embryo.

Chimerism may occur naturally during pregnancy, when two non-identical twins combine in the womb, at a very early stage of development, to form a single organism. Such an organism is called a tetragametic chimera as it is formed from four gametes—two eggs and two sperm. As the organism develops, the resulting chimera can come to possess organs that have different sets of chromosomes. For example, the chimera may have a liver composed of cells with a second set of chromosomes. This has occurred in humans, though it is considered extremely rare, but since it can only be detected through DNA testing, which in itself is rare, it may be more common than currently believed. As of 2003, there were about 30 human cases in the literature, according to New Scientist.

So this life is a product of combination after the moment of conception. And that is another story that denies life begins at conception..

When identical twins are carried one of those twins was from the original zygote. The second is from the division of the zygote and after the moment of conception. It, like the chimera, did not begin at conception.

Conception itself is a process where gamettes merge which includes a time within the egg where there are two stands of 23 chromosones. - not even a human being yet until, hours later, the two strand merge in proper alignment.

The mantra, as Till calls it, is emotional ignorance.

[seagull]

Originally Posted by pah

Does a Person Exist at the Moment of Conception?

No. That was a simple answer.

[Tawn]

You know in some cultures life is not considered sacred.
If you think life is 'priceless'.. how much do you think the government would be prepared to spend on surgery for you to stay alive? There is a limit and its a lot lower than you would think..
Additionally, doesnt it cost something like 1 pound (2 dollars) or so to vaccinate a child in africa against disease.. (sorry im not hot on facts) So are African lives less 'priceless' than western ones? Since we seem to do so little to help africa..

And we worry about a fetus being aborted!?! What kind of mad world is this?

[linwood]

No.
And no again because I have to reach the word limit.

[Bright-ness' Shadow]

Originally Posted by seagull

No. That was a simple answer.

Originally Posted by linwood

No.
And no again because I have to reach the word limit.

*pats himself on the back for saying it all
Thanks gentlemen

[roli]

Originally Posted by seagull

No. That was a simple answer.

Life in actuality is technically existent in the egg and sperm
Existencea living thing that has (or can develop) the ability to act or function independently,presently existing in fact and not merely potential or possible;and Iran" being or occurring in fact or actuality;
A life is existent at conception in the sense of what we know exitence to be.
When we don't see it we think it is therefore non existent, sounds bias to me.

Are parasites and ameba,or any living orginism for that atter being obscured from the human eye ,termed non existen because they are undetected by the human eye.
Those who think that life is non existent at conception need to have a doctor attempt to remove the non existent inanimate object (fetus)from the womb.
I am certain, what was once a bias and impersonal viewpoint would soon become reality and personal upon any attempt of extraction of the non existent tissue.
Until it happens to the individual making such claims are unrealistic,I mean if, and when conception where to happen in the life of the individual who takes such a position and it where to cause our perspectives to change, from pro to anti, what where we basing our position on in the first place.

It would prove in nothinelse our hypocrisy
Bringing it home personally really helps maintain a clearer and broder perspective,not to mention having an open mind

[linwood]

Originally Posted by roli

When we don't see it we think it is therefore non existent, sounds bias to me.

My but you do roll out some assumptions.
You assume I don`t think an egg and a sperm are a person because I can`t see it?
Wrong.

Those who think that life is non existent at conception need to have a doctor attempt to remove the non existent inanimate object (fetus)from the womb.

Nobody said life was non-existent at conception.
I`m not saying many don`t think so I`m just saying no one said it.
Another assumption.

I am certain, what was once a bias and impersonal viewpoint would soon become reality and personal upon any attempt of extraction of the non existent tissue.
Until it happens to the individual making such claims are unrealistic,I mean if, and when conception where to happen in the life of the individual who takes such a position and it where to cause our perspectives to change, from pro to anti, what where we basing our position on in the first place.

Now you make personal assumptions with no basis.
You assume those who think differently than you just need to put themselves in the position of acting to change their minds to come to your point of view.
I guess you assume this because you cannot fathom that you are wrong.
Or that what is right for you is right fall all.
There`s that pesky objective morality again.
See the trouble that causes?

It would prove in nothinelse our hypocrisy
Bringing it home personally really helps maintain a clearer and broder perspective,not to mention having an open mind

Open mind...Open mind....

[Bright-ness' Shadow]

Roli,

The article starts out with consideration for gamete as living. so I don't know why you have to lecture us. You have done nothing to comment about the misconceptions of conception that abortion opponets like to say is their answer to when life begins. Please address the article in it's discussion of twins and chimera.

[kiwimac]

No it does not.

Kiwimac