Faith Defined (religion, science)

[Sunstone]

VOR writes,

“It's like they have never even heard of logic, taken a class in logic, or understand the most basic fallacies in a logical argument.”

Maybe that’s why they aren’t agnostics.

[The Voice of Reason]

Sunstone,

I'm not sure I understand - do you mean that because they haven't had any training in logic, that they are incapable of thinking straight enough to understand Agnosticism?

Or are you saying that because they haven't had the training in logic, they are too smart to buy into Agnosticism?

[Sunstone]

VOR,

I meant to imply the former -- that is: that without training in logic, theists may fail to understand agnosticism.

[The Voice of Reason]

Sunstone,

I like the way you think - I'm keeping an eye on you. :smile:

In response to a kid that asked a tough question about how God could be omnipotent, all-loving and still allow babies to die, I will always cherish one of my favorite quotes which comes from a pamplet that my church sent out to teens (this was back in the 70's):
"Remember - you may be guilty of improper thinking."

[Sunstone]

"Remember - you may be guilty of improper thinking." ROFL!

That raises the question of whether faith (in a religious sense) requires one to close one's mind to avoid "improper thinking". That would make it very different from faith (to a scientist).

[paul_an_apostle]

Originally Posted by (Q)

Lightkeeper
But what are the chances you will ever see your God? A very low probability, dont ya think?

Our chances of seeing God are 100% - so you better be ready. I would rather He look at me through the eyes of His Son Jesus, than without Jesus between us filtering my sin out.

You will seve somebody! It may be the Devil but it can be The Lord, but you will serve somebody. (Bob Dylan)

[Master Vigil]

Prove that the chances of us seeing god is 100%. And why does jesus have to filter out your sin? Why can't buddha, or the natural tao, or the tree spirits, etc... I serve myself, the Tao, and the spirits. I do not serve the christian god, or the devil. For I do not believe they exist. And I do not believe god looks at anything, that would imply that he had eyes. And I don't believe a perfect and omnipotent being has the need for eyes, or any physical characteristic.

[Sunstone]

Originally Posted by paul_an_apostle

You will seve somebody! It may be the Devil but it can be The Lord, but you will serve somebody. (Bob Dylan)

In logic, that is a fallacy. It's a fallacy because it fails to recognize the possibility that you will serve neither. Of course, in poetry, it's beautiful. And, of course, Dylan is a much better poet than he is a logician.

[(Q)]

Our chances of seeing God are 100% - so you better be ready.

Sure Paul, give him my regards.

[Named]

If you have walked there many times before, and have always gotten where you are going, then it is perfectly logical for you to "have faith" or be confident that you will get where you are going. There is no need for a leap of faith, in the spiritual sense...it is a hypothesis with a lot of support behind it.

Statistically isn't there a higher chance of him being hit by a car if he hasn't already? ^^