For those of you looking for absolute proof that God exists.... (moral, rejecting)

[Hirohito18200]

Originally Posted by Snowbear

As for proof that God exists, I may not be able to see His face, but I see the results of His work and that's good enough for me. Kinda like I can't actually see electricity, but I can measure it's current and voltage and my computer turns on.... that's good enough for me to know electricity exists

So does god have any measurable effects on the universe or is that limited to charged particles?
And do say that god can't show us too much or else it takes away free will, that kind of falls apart when you're looking at the fall of satan, since he was obviously fully aware of god's existence and still chose to rebel. Also, to say that a certain threshold of information would actually take away free will would imply a design flaw or limitation to free will, because it would deny the individual the option of interpriting the data as he/she felt fit.
And if the morality proof were really valid wouldn't that contradict your statement of having no absolute proof? Also, if god makes himself evident in your life, and has convinced you absolutely, are the souls of the rest of human kind not valuable enough to justify him getting up and showing us too, or would that be taking away our free will? (has yours been taken away by god being evident in your life?)

[Dr. Khan]

Originally Posted by Master Vigil

Than prove it Khan. And don't forget, the bible doesn't count. Begging the question and circular arguments are logical fallacies and prove nothing. So, what is your evidence?

{The gift of the Holy Ghost.} It is not my job to prove, but God's. The bible does count because it identifies to me what to expect from God himself. If he does not do what he says then I may say that in the b ible he is a liar. I am unable to say that he is a liar because he has proven himself to me; the matter is settled. You on the other hand struggle with what is written. Therefore let me explain the dynamic by which the bible informs us of the workings of the kingdom of Heaven. First you must search the scriptures. Since there are so many religions and philosophys in the world, please accept my testimony as though I were on the witness stand. Then you be the Judge.
My background previous to conversion was Methodist. This by family. But the day came when I needed to know for myself whether Jesus really worked. I read the new testament (several) times. I found it facinating for some reason. It was as if my eyes were being opened, so I thought because when a coworker asked me about the Holy Ghost I didn't know what he was talking about. He showed me where John the baptist said in Mark chapter one , verse eight; saying, " I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. Now (He) is Jesus. He showed me other scriptures regarding the Holy Ghost which is my evidence and everything that Jesus said he is in John chapter 14-16.

The Holy Spirit is the evidence. He is all there is and he does what Jesus says He does.

[Dr. Khan]

Oh I got baptized in the Holy Ghost. John 7:37-39
Until this happens to you, you have no earthly idea what I'm talking about. Until this happens to you, you're out of the loop. Be not dismayed almost all of Christianity is the same way. In fact many Christians reject it because it is not traditional. This experience began again a hundred years ago after perhaps more than 1700 years.It began not in Rome where many might think the center of Christianity began but in Los Angeles and spread throughout the world. I must admit I don't think of myself as much of a christian without the Experience. To me every thing is relative to the Holy Ghost, the (Spirit of Christ) and his actions. Without him in this world today I would be shaken by all the things that are going on in the world. By the Holy Ghost I don't have to lie to myself to (keep the faith because of fear of God if I don't believe) I'm stuck!!! with Jesus, and I like it that way.

[Snowbear]

Originally Posted by Hirohito18200

So does god have any measurable effects on the universe or is that limited to charged particles?
And do say that god can't show us too much or else it takes away free will...

I think so, but many people choose not to believe it.
IMO... the choice to believe what you see or discount it as something God did is free will.

Originally Posted by Hirohito18200

And do say that god can't show us too much or else it takes away free will, that kind of falls apart when you're looking at the fall of satan, since he was obviously fully aware of god's existence and still chose to rebel. Also, to say that a certain threshold of information would actually take away free will would imply a design flaw or limitation to free will, because it would deny the individual the option of interpriting the data as he/she felt fit.
And if the morality proof were really valid wouldn't that contradict your statement of having no absolute proof?...)

Um.... I didn't say any of that...

Originally Posted by Hirohito18200

Also, if god makes himself evident in your life, and has convinced you absolutely, are the souls of the rest of human kind not valuable enough to justify him getting up and showing us too, or would that be taking away our free will? (has yours been taken away by god being evident in your life?)

I believe God shows all people He exists, thus the part about justification of Him showing Himself doesn't apply. So no, my free will has not been taken away because I chose to open my mind enough to see what He has revealed.

[Majikthise]

[quote=Dr. Khan]Oh I got baptized in the Holy Ghost. John 7:37-39
Until this happens to you, you have no earthly idea what I'm talking about. Until this happens to you, you're out of the loop.



Been there , done that, felt it once,feel much better nowthat it does not control my life or thoughts.The thing you do not realize is that many atheists came from where you are now.Stay in your loop going round and round,I'm moving on.I realise I do not have the know all ,end all ansewers to everything.What you are talking about is simplicity itself to me.The man made concept of god is not about love ,it is about fear and towing the line.

[The Voice of Reason]

Originally Posted by Geoman076

... because God is not allowed to give it.

Okay, I'll give - who is it that enforces this "rule" when God breaks it?

If you are going to argue God's existence (or qualities), please stick to revealed faith and the teachings of your Bible (or Koran, etc.). This journey into logic is doomed to failure.

TVOR

PS - anyone else get a headache trying to follow some of this?

[andyjamal]

sabaticBut why the long al since his last "official" appearance. If there's a good answer, PLEASE send it to me. Anyone have an idea on this?

It has been less than 200 years since His last "appearance". He was manifested in Baha'u'llah (Glory of God) in the latter half of the nineteenth century. He has given us new teachings which are appropriate for today. Check out the Baha'i Faith forum on this site.

[Dr. Khan]

[quote=Majikthise]

Originally Posted by Dr. Khan

Oh I got baptized in the Holy Ghost. John 7:37-39
Until this happens to you, you have no earthly idea what I'm talking about. Until this happens to you, you're out of the loop.



Been there , done that, felt it once,feel much better nowthat it does not control my life or thoughts.The thing you do not realize is that many atheists came from where you are now.Stay in your loop going round and round,I'm moving on.I realise I do not have the know all ,end all ansewers to everything.What you are talking about is simplicity itself to me.The man made concept of god is not about love ,it is about fear and towing the line.

If you're an atheist why are you in religious forums/ religious education.

[The Voice of Reason]

Originally Posted by Limbo

As we all know, ...

A fine post, Limbo, but your choice of words at the very opening line betray your position. You may feel that you know the rest of your post to be "true" (and I'm sure you feel that it is), but what you take as "truth" is not universally accepted. Heck, some of it is open for debate even within the Christian religion.

I'm sure that you are aware that some people (Agnostics and Atheists) that do not share your belief in the existence of God, much less the Biblical accounts of what transpired.

Thanks,
TVOR

[The Voice of Reason]

Originally Posted by Dr. Khan

If you're an atheist why are you in religious forums/ religious education.

This is a religious DEBATES forum. If the discussion is not open for debate, it should be moved.

TVOR