The Soul Defined? (moral, Earth, tradition, dogmas, moral)

linwood · #1 03-01-2005, 12:37 AM

"In Galileo's time, the counter-intuitive discovery that the Earth moved around the sun was laden with moral danger. Now it seems obvious that the motion of rock and gas in space has nothing to do with right and wrong. Yet to many people, the discovery that the soul is the activity of the brain is just as fraught, with pernicious implications for everything from criminal responsibility to our image of ourselves as a species. Turning back the clock on the ultimate form of self-knowledge is neither possible nor desirable. We can live with the new challenges from brain science. But it will require setting aside childlike intuitions and traditional dogmas, and thinking afresh about what makes people better off and worse off."

Full article at the link...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6037905/site/newsweek/

Bright-ness' Shadow · #2 04-08-2005, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by linwood

"In Galileo's time, the counter-intuitive discovery that the Earth moved around the sun was laden with moral danger. Now it seems obvious that the motion of rock and gas in space has nothing to do with right and wrong. Yet to many people, the discovery that the soul is the activity of the brain is just as fraught, with pernicious implications for everything from criminal responsibility to our image of ourselves as a species. Turning back the clock on the ultimate form of self-knowledge is neither possible nor desirable. We can live with the new challenges from brain science. But it will require setting aside childlike intuitions and traditional dogmas, and thinking afresh about what makes people better off and worse off."

Full article at the link...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6037905/site/newsweek/

I must admit to not responding and waiting for other comments. Are there going to be any?

michel · #3 04-08-2005, 08:50 AM

[PART QUOTE] :-http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6037905/site/newsweek/

"Yes, people acknowledge that the brain is involved in mental life. But they still think of it as a pocket PC for the soul, managing information at the behest of a ghostly user.
placeAd(5,'newsweek.healthforlife/healthforlife')Modern neuroscience has shown that there is no user. "The soul" is, in fact, the information-processing activity of the brain. New imaging techniques have tied every thought and emotion to neural activity. And any change to the brain—from strokes, drugs, electricity or surgery—will literally change your mind. But this understanding hasn't penetrated the conventional wisdom. We tell people to "use their brains," we speculate about brain transplants (which really should be called body transplants) and we express astonishment that meditation, education and psycho-therapy can actually change the brain. How else could they work?"

I'm sorry, I find that hard to believe; every thought and emotion may be represented in us by neural activity; but surely this is (Using the computer analogy) like saying that the neural activity ( wireless and wired routers on a network) prove that everything emanates from the computers, rather than allowing for the router receiving information from the internet? It is no proof of no soul (to me at any rate)

robtex · #4 04-08-2005, 08:53 AM

Great article Linwood. I couldn't frubal you maybe a raincheck will suffice for right now. I remember last month Master Vigil asked in a thread if there was a way to talk about God without using metaphores, or something like that. The soul is a great example of his ponderings. We know from science that things attributed to the "soul" are actually in the brain, something spirtual leaders and the public were unaware of just hundreds of years ago. The diagnosis of disorders like bi-polar and manic depression have since been seen as chemical inbalances in the brain and not an aspect of a "soul"

As neuroscience and psychology gains an understanding of how our brains work a new blur has come about to what aspect of us belongs to a "soul" and which is part of our brain. The reality of modern medicine is we are a great test subject. Man is a willing test subject and an everpresent one which tens of thousands looked at every year.

I have yet to see an article where a soul was picked up in an xray a catscan or an mri. No medical examination has ever discovered a soul and I bet you would have a hard time finding the word soul in any medical procedure book.

robtex · #5 04-08-2005, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michel

[PART QUOTE] :-http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6037905/site/newsweek/

"Yes, people acknowledge that the brain is involved in mental life. But they still think of it as a pocket PC for the soul, managing information at the behest of a ghostly user.
placeAd(5,'newsweek.healthforlife/healthforlife')Modern neuroscience has shown that there is no user. "The soul" is, in fact, the information-processing activity of the brain. New imaging techniques have tied every thought and emotion to neural activity. And any change to the brain—from strokes, drugs, electricity or surgery—will literally change your mind. But this understanding hasn't penetrated the conventional wisdom. We tell people to "use their brains," we speculate about brain transplants (which really should be called body transplants) and we express astonishment that meditation, education and psycho-therapy can actually change the brain. How else could they work?"

I'm sorry, I find that hard to believe; every thought and emotion may be represented in us by neural activity; but surely this is (Using the computer analogy) like saying that the neural activity ( wireless and wired routers on a network) prove that everything emanates from the computers, rather than allowing for the router receiving information from the internet? It is no proof of no soul (to me at any rate)

Can you find some medical references where doctors and other experts in the appropiate field adovate the existance of a soul?

wouldn't it be more prudent to assess that education psycho-therapy and mediation would change the soul if you were argueing for its existance?

Mike, if personality is in the brain (as science has assessed) and in our DNA wouldn't it be redundant to put the same info in our souls? Name something about humans that cannot be attributed to any part of our brain or body and why it can only be attributed to a soul.

rivenrock · #6 04-20-2005, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robtex

Name something about humans that cannot be attributed to any part of our brain or body and why it can only be attributed to a soul.

Astro-travelling.

And that whole 21 grams thing hasn't quite been sorted yet.

michel · #7 04-20-2005, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robtex

Can you find some medical references where doctors and other experts in the appropiate field adovate the existance of a soul?

wouldn't it be more prudent to assess that education psycho-therapy and mediation would change the soul if you were argueing for its existance?

Mike, if personality is in the brain (as science has assessed) and in our DNA wouldn't it be redundant to put the same info in our souls? Name something about humans that cannot be attributed to any part of our brain or body and why it can only be attributed to a soul.

You know I can't
It might be more prudent, but I like living dangerously
Why, if the purpose of the physical body is merely an interface between the soul and this dimention ? The brain, as I see it, is like a 'flash memory card' to the hard drive of the soul - to which we have no access, because if we did there would be no point in living. The traffic is only one way from the brain, to the soul. Something about humans that cannot be attributed ? - memories of past lives, where even children have led their parents to a place where they have seen themselves before, but have never been there in their present lifetime. Or do you believe that all these occurances are 'rigged' ?

michel · #8 04-20-2005, 12:12 PM

Re my last post; how do you view the following:- speculation/coincidence/fraud/possibly an indication of a soul ?

Rob, I know these people could all be fakes, genuinely trying to pull the wool over our eyes, but some have credulity. I have avoided some of the doubtfull sources.

http://www.childpastlives.org
http://www.boloji.com/hinduism/022.htm
http://www.avatarmeherbaba.org/erics/pastlife.html
http://www.cfree.org/Reincarnation/Articles/Art002.html
http://www.eckankar.org/Books/pldst.html

Named · #9 05-03-2005, 12:18 PM

I admire the persistence, but nah... The mind exists in the functions of the brain. Each and every cognitive process or feeling is localised or attributed to a cortex of the brain, residence to the neurons which through their vast network of synapses unify senses and thoughts into a 'mind'.

When our brain dies, so too do our thoughts, emotions and personality.

Let it go.
As Monty Python says- "You've come from nothing, you're going back to nothing; what have you lost? NOTHING!"
*whistles*