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  #1  
Old 03-05-2006, 11:02 PM
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Default Digital Evolution

It's not a simulation of evolution....it IS evolution.

http://www.carlzimmer.com/articles/2...005_Avida.html
These are digital organisms-strings of commands-akin to computer viruses. Each organism can produce tens of thousands of copies of itself within a matter of minutes. Unlike computer viruses, however, they are made up of digital bits that can mutate in much the same way DNA mutates. A software program called Avida allows researchers to track the birth, life, and death of generation after generation of the digital organisms by scanning columns of numbers that pour down a computer screen like waterfalls.

......

In the late 1990s Ofria's former adviser, physicist Chris Adami of Caltech, set out to create the conditions in which a computer program could evolve the ability to do addition. He created some primitive digital organisms and at regular intervals presented numbers to them. At first they could do nothing. But each time a digital organism replicated, there was a small chance that one of its command lines might mutate. On a rare occasion, these mutations allowed an organism to process one of the numbers in a simple way. An organism might acquire the ability simply to read a number, for example, and then produce an identical output.

Adami rewarded the digital organisms by speeding up the time it took them to reproduce. If an organism could read two numbers at once, he would speed up its reproduction even more. And if they could add the numbers, he would give them an even bigger reward. Within six months, Adami's organisms were addition whizzes. “We were able to get them to evolve without fail,” he says. But when he stopped to look at exactly how the organisms were adding numbers, he was more surprised. “Some of the ways were obvious, but with others I'd say, 'What the hell is happening?' It seemed completely insane.”


.....

Evolving "Irreducible Complexity"
Digital organisms don't have complex organs such as eyes, but they can process information in complex ways. In order to add two numbers together, for example, a digital organism needs to carry out a lot of simpler operations, such as reading the numbers and holding pieces of those numbers in its memory. Knock out the commands that let a digital organism do one of these simple operations and it may not be able to add. The Avida team realized that by watching a complex organism evolve, they might learn some lessons about how complexity evolves in general.

The researchers set up an experiment to document how one particularly complex operation evolved. The operation, known as equals, consists of comparing pairs of binary numbers, bit by bit, and recording whether each pair of digits is the same. It's a standard operation found in software, but it's not a simple one. The shortest equals program Ofria could write is 19 lines long. The chances that random mutations alone could produce it are about one in a thousand trillion trillion.

To test Darwin's idea that complex systems evolve from simpler precursors, the Avida team set up rewards for simpler operations and bigger rewards for more complex ones. The researchers set up an experiment in which organisms replicate for 16,000generations. They then repeated the experiment 50 times.

Avida beat the odds. In 23 of the 50 trials, evolution produced organisms that could carry out the equals operation.


....

When the Avida team published their first results on the evolution of complexity in 2003, they were inundated with e-mails from creationists. Their work hit a nerve in the antievolution movement and hit it hard. A popular claim of creationists is that life shows signs of intelligent design, especially in its complexity. They argue that complex things could never have evolved, because they don't work unless all their parts are in place. But as Adami points out, if creationists were right, then Avida wouldn't be able to produce complex digital organisms. A digital organism may use 19 or more simple routines in order to carry out the equals operation. If you delete any of the routines, it can't do the job. “What we show is that there are irreducibly complex things and they can evolve,” says Adami.

The Avida team makes their software freely available on the Internet, and creationists have downloaded it over and over again in hopes of finding a fatal flaw. While they've uncovered a few minor glitches, Ofria says they have yet to find anything serious. “We literally have an army of thousands of unpaid bug testers,” he says. “What more could you want?”


It's a great article, follow the link and read the whole thing!
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Old 03-05-2006, 11:28 PM
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Im no scientist, but it seems these "organisms" had an intelligent designer
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Old 03-05-2006, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevmicsmi
Im no scientist, but it seems these "organisms" had an intelligent designer
I assume you're referring to the scientists who set up this reserach. For that matter, all the intelligent designers had parents and grandparents, and probably siblings and spouses. So what? You're missing the point. The important ingredients are reproduction, random mutation, and selection.
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Old 03-05-2006, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Spinkles
I assume you're referring to the scientists who set up this reserach. For that matter, all the intelligent designers had parents and grandparents, and probably siblings and spouses. So what? You're missing the point. The important ingredients are reproduction, random mutation, and selection.
That was created originally
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Old 03-05-2006, 11:46 PM
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with a desired result in mind
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Old 03-05-2006, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevmicsmi
That was created originally
I concede that the research doesn't address what (or who) would bring about entities which reproduce and randomly change their code, and which are subject to external selection. It merely demonstrates that, once these are established, there is no need for any plan or intervention by a "designer" to evolve "irreducibly complex" systems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevmicsmi
with a desired result in mind
True, the experimenters did have a desired result in mind. But the point is that once the experiment begins, the experimenters have no control over what the results will be. Evolution finds a way to add two numbers all by itself.
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Old 03-06-2006, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Spinkles
I concede that the research doesn't address what (or who) would bring about entities which reproduce and randomly change their code, and which are subject to external selection. It merely demonstrates that, once these are established, there is no need for any plan or intervention by a "designer" to evolve "irreducibly complex" systems.

True, the experimenters did have a desired result in mind. But the point is that once the experiment begins, the experimenters have no control over what the results will be. Evolution finds a way to add two numbers all by itself.
Ive read many posts about evolution on here Spinkles, and it seems to me you are probably way too smart scientifically to even enjoy discussing this with me, I would like to say that for me, to prove the Theory of Evolution completely valid, imo we need more than a computer program that was set up from the beginning by intelligent beings, with a desired result in mind, neither of which would be around to aid evolution if there is no original creator.
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Old 03-06-2006, 06:15 AM
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Wow Mr Spinkles. Excellent and fascinating research.
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Old 03-06-2006, 06:33 AM
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Wow Mr Spinkles. Excellent and fascinating research.
I agree; but for some reason, I also find it a bit scary.
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Old 03-06-2006, 06:42 AM
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