Science VS. Religion

[Mr Cheese]

Originally Posted by Jose Fly

So, what exactly is religion's "model of reality", how is it established, and how is it differentiated from myth?

It depends on religion there are many

For the Gnostics, the model is pretty easy to construct...
It involves emanationism and aeons....

How is it differentiated from myth? well cosmology is cosmology
I dont really see the relevance of the question

[Mr Cheese]

Originally Posted by Jose Fly

It's only "loaded" because of the inherent nature of religion, i.e. it is indistinguishable from myth.

well science has its own "problems"

the views of Heisenberg and others call into question the entirety of the scientific method... in effect saying science is only "good" for "so much"

just like a religious cosmological model...

but I doubt that is worth consideration for many here...

[Mr Cheese]

Originally Posted by Hevenly Heathen

My path has no model. .

Perhaps you are unaware of what models are....

could you explain how you have no model?

[AxisMundi]

Originally Posted by Mr Cheese

science was not divorced from religion back then, as such then, there is a line between modern science and that which you speak of

Not at all.

How is stone knapping religious?

How was bronze tool making linked to religion at all?

You've made the preposition, now please provide some proof.

[AxisMundi]

Originally Posted by Mr Cheese

well science has its own "problems"

the views of Heisenberg and others call into question the entirety of the scientific method... in effect saying science is only "good" for "so much"

just like a religious cosmological model...

but I doubt that is worth consideration for many here...

Have some citable quotes from Werner Heisenberg?

[Mr Cheese]

Originally Posted by AxisMundi

Not at all.

How is stone knapping religious?

How was bronze tool making linked to religion at all?

You've made the preposition, now please provide some proof.

I have no idea what stone knappign is

bronze tool making is science now? I thought that would be metal work

however...many ancient cultures viewed tool making as an act of interaction with the divine.... I am sure there were ancient atheists, but the divine was far more inherantly inseprabel from a persons life...in every aspect, than it is now

[Mr Cheese]

Originally Posted by AxisMundi

Have some citable quotes from Werner Heisenberg?

Yes, I can use google:

Werner Heisenberg Quotes - Dictionary of Science Quotations and Scientist Quotes



It is not surprising that our language should be incapable of describing the processes occurring within the atoms, for, as has been remarked, it was invented to describe the experiences of daily life, and these consists only of processes involving exceedingly large numbers of atoms. Furthermore, it is very difficult to modify our language so that it will be able to describe these atomic processes, for words can only describe things of which we can form mental pictures, and this ability, too, is a result of daily experience. Fortunately, mathematics is not subject to this limitation, and it has been possible to invent a mathematical scheme—the quantum theory—which seems entirely adequate for the treatment of atomic processes; for visualization, however, we must content ourselves with two incomplete analogies—the wave picture and the corpuscular picture.

— Werner Heisenberg

The Physical Principles of the Quantum Theory, trans. Carl Eckart and Frank C. Hoyt (1949), 11.
See also: | Atom (92) | Particle (13) | Quantum Physics (14) | Wave (16)



It seems sensible to discard all hope of observing hitherto unobservable quantities, such as the position and period of the electron... Instead it seems more reasonable to try to establish a theoretical quantum mechanics, analogous to classical mechanics, but in which only relations between observable quantities occur.

— Werner Heisenberg

In Helge Kragh, Quantum Generations: A History of Physics in the Twentieth Century (1999), 161.
See also: | Electron (30) | Observation (147) | Quantum Physics (14) | Theory (192)



Our scientific work in physics consists in asking questions about nature in the language that we possess and trying to get an answer from experiment by the means at our disposal. In this way quantum theory reminds us, as Bohr has put it, of the old wisdom that when searching for harmony in life one must never forget that in the drama of existence we are ourselves both players and spectators. It is understandable that in our scientific relation to nature our own activity becomes very important when we have to deal with parts of nature into which we can penetrate only by using the most elaborate tools.


— Werner Heisenberg
—
The Copenhagen Interpretation of Quantum Theory (1958). In Steve Adams, Frontiers (2000), 13.
See also: | Experiment (218) | Quantum Theory (19) | Question (52) | Research (221)



Science no longer is in the position of observer of nature, but rather recognizes itself as part of the interplay between man and nature. The scientific method ... changes and transforms its object: the procedure can no longer keep its distance from the object.


— Werner Heisenberg

The Representation of Nature in Contemporary Physics', Symbolism in Religion and Literature (1960), 231. Cited in John J. Stuhr, Philosophy and the Reconstruction of Culture (1993), 139.
See also: | Change (44) | Man (115) | Nature (255) | Object (14) | Procedure (6) | Recognize (4) | Science (463) | Scientific Method (62)

[painted wolf]

metallurgy is in fact a science... knapping is the shaping of stone by percussive force.

wa:do

[Mr Cheese]

Originally Posted by painted wolf

metallurgy is in fact a science... knapping is the shaping of stone by percussive force.

wa:do

well i'm no expert, but I know that samurai sword makers were/are not divorced from "the divine" as they perform their "science"....

perhaps an "expert" can correct me....

[Jose Fly]

Originally Posted by Hevenly Heathen

Again, only because you have a predetermined idea of what religion is. Many paths don't have a mythology, and even the ones that do, not all of their followers are blind enough to accept everything because they are told to.

Ok, so what methodology does religion offer to differentiate myth from reality?

My path has no model. It seeks to open my eyes to the universe, not to truth, not to god. Many paths are like this.

That's nice feel-good rhetoric, but what exactly does it mean? What does "open my eyes to the universe" mean? And if it's "not to truth" then how is what you're talking about different than making stuff up?

It is a logical fallacy to lump all religions into having the same model, let alone the many paths that aren't really religious but simply spiritual.

I've done no such thing, and in fact am specifically using the fact that religions are so diverse to make my point.

Science is a bit easier to lump, but even then there are differing theories, yet they have basic logic and rationality to tie their findings together, R/S doesn't.

Exactly.

That only makes r/s less valid if you look at it from one side, but then the same for science. Which doesn't matter, to each to their own. As long as they learn to live in harmony with others, even if their views aren't the same.

What other side are you referring to?