EVOLUTION, what a lie.

[Fatihah]

[QUOTE Autodidac]This is what I mean by how much longer it makes the thread when I have to repeat myself. I have said at least 4 times, and given you cites, of specific instances in which we have seen exactly that. You are mistaken.(End quote)

Response: Exactly. You've presented sites of scientists saying that they've seen evolution. That's not " PROOF." Simply saying that someone has seen evolution is not proof that it actually happened. To say otherwise is completely absurd.

(/Quote Autodidact)
She has seen it. That's what she's trying to tell you.(End quote)

Response: You don't know what someone else has seen.

(/Quote Autodidact)
Again, I don't know how much longer my patience can hold out. I think I'll resort to large colored fonts, because that is sometimes effective with a certain type of poster.

SCIENCE ISNT ABOUT PROOF. IT'S ABOUT EVIDENCE. EVIDENCE. NOT PROOF. EVIDENCE. YOU SHOULD BE ASKING FOR EVIDENCE, NOT PROOF.

Please don't make me say this again; I'm losing my patience.(End quote)

Response: How hypocritical is this. You've been saying for the longest that you have proof then now you say it's not about proof.
And how on earth is it not about proof in a debate in which the point is to know the proof?

(Quote Autodidact)
Again, probaby the 4th or 5th time I've said this: Because you can go and see it for yourself. That's how science works. No observation is permitted unless it's replicable. That means anyone who goes to the place, or performs the experiment, observes the same thing. There's no magic key; anyone can do it. That's part of how science works. Please don't make me repeat this. Atoms? Remember atoms?
(End quote)

Response: And in response to you saying it for the 4th or 5th time, you can't see something that doesn't exist.
Because, not being biologists, they haven't made it their life's work to look.

We have seen, in human history, dogs evolve from this:



to this:



Maybe you just weren't looking.(End quote)

Response: That's not proof of evolution. Those are pictures of dogs and you saying that they evolved. That's not proof.

(/Quote Autodidact)
Exactly. Look and you will see the Signs. Actually look. Look at the evidence. It reveals Allah's creation--through evolution.(End quote)

Response: No, it doesn't.

[Fatihah]

Originally Posted by Jose Fly

Fatihah,

So you believe Jesus performed miracles, was resurrected from the dead, walked the earth, and then ascended into heaven?

You believe Zeus, Hera, Odin, Quetzalcoatl, Thor, Vishnu, Shiva, etc. all exist and did all the things attributed to them by their followers?

You believe all the reincarnation stories of Hindus? Enlightenment accounts of Buddhists? Alien abduction accounts? UFO sightings? Visits by ghosts? People reading each others' minds? Government controlling our thoughts via electromagnetic waves?

Basically, you believe every single story any person has told as long as it involves an eye witness? Except accounts of the evolution of new species, of course.

Response: No. I believe anything that can be proven and ToE definately is not one of them.

[Autodidact]

Fatihah: No one has ever seen a new species evolve.
Painted Wolf: I have.
Fatihah. You're lying. Prove it. They couldn't have, because it doesn't happen. Therefore, if they say they did, they're lying.
Autodidact: Here are 31 separate instances of scientists seeing new species evolve.
Fatihah: They're all lying.
Jose Fly: Look, an elephant.

Fatihah: There is no elephant. The qu'ran says there are no elephants. Therefore there is no elephant. You cannot prove there is an elephant.
Autodidact: The qu'ran doesn't say that.
Fatihah: Here is this passage that says something else completely, but all true Muslims agree it means there are no elephants. I have never seen an elephant myself, so you can't prove there is such a thing as an elephant.

[Fatihah]

[QUOTE OmarKhayyam]Correct.

Simply because what a scientist says happens can be DUPLICATED.(End quote)

Response: Yes, it can. Not the case for ToE.

(/Quote OmarKhayyan)
If you don't believe it go make the observation or do the experiment yourself. You will get the same result.

(End quote)

Response: You can't observe something that doesn't exists.

(/Quote OmarKhayyan)
But your moon story or the flying house bit, not so. Nobody and nothing but your book has EVER reported anything like that.

But, still real simple. If it happened - repeat it.

GO ahead do it again! Show us how it was done. Simple magic tricks are no problem for your invisible friend - just DO IT!

We are all breathless in anticipation.

(Yeah, I know god don't give free shows. Pay in advance with your life. THEN you can see it.)

Large pile of male bovine feces.(End quote)


Response: I'm not a prophet, I can't perform miracles. But that is not proof that it didn't happen. However, unlike your inability to prove ToE, bringing the same illogical evidence as proof like "it's true because a science book or scientist told me so", the qur'an is an actual living miracle which can be tested at all times as proof of it's authentication and that test is presented in post 1392 of page 140. Go on...Take the test. You see, I don't have to tell you to go to someone else and observe anything. The proof is at your fingertips. Go on.

We muslims have been waiting for 1400+ years.

[Autodidact]

Fatihah: I don't know whether your problem is lack of intelligence, or your impervious reality shield. There's no point in talking to you if you can't understand what I am saying. I have said over and over and over again that science is about evidence, not proof. Every time you say proof, I say no, evidence. Evidence, not proof. Now you accuse me of lying, saying that I said I would provide proof. I never said that. Go back and find a post in which I offered proof. Unlike you, I will not accuse you of lying. I think that you actually think you are telling the truth. But your blinders cause you to read not what people actually say, but what you expect. It's the same with reality--you don't see what's there. You see what you expect to be there.

Now, either cite a post where I said I would prove evolution, or retract your slander. If you do neither, then there is one liar in this thread, and it's not me, painted wolf, or Jose Fly.

[Autodidact]

Originally Posted by Fatihah

Response: What we see is the hypocrisy in your own logic. When a theist provides witness accounts of Jesus performing miracles...it's a lie.
When witness accounts are presented to prove the miracles of Moses....it's a lie.
Of Muhammad...it's a lie
Of Allah himself....it's a lie

Did I say it was a lie?

But when a scentist says that they've seen something evolve...IT's TRUE!!!!

The hypocrisy is unbelievable.

I can't do it any more. I can't say the same things over and over and over again. YOu will be the first creationist I've given up on. You are incapable of learning. *sigh*

NOT ONE SCIENTIST. EVERY SCIENTIST. EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO ACTUALLY EXAMINES THE ORGANISM. YOU CAN DO IT TOO. THERE'S NO ONE TO STOP YOU. GO AND LOOK. YOU WILL SEE THE SAME THING. THIS IS THE TEST THAT EVERY BIT OF SCIENTIFIC DATA MUST PASS.

[Fatihah]

Originally Posted by Autodidact

Fatihah: I don't know whether your problem is lack of intelligence, or your impervious reality shield. There's no point in talking to you if you can't understand what I am saying. I have said over and over and over again that science is about evidence, not proof. Every time you say proof, I say no, evidence. Evidence, not proof. Now you accuse me of lying, saying that I said I would provide proof. I never said that. Go back and find a post in which I offered proof. Unlike you, I will not accuse you of lying. I think that you actually think you are telling the truth. But your blinders cause you to read not what people actually say, but what you expect. It's the same with reality--you don't see what's there. You see what you expect to be there.

Now, either cite a post where I said I would prove evolution, or retract your slander. If you do neither, then there is one liar in this thread, and it's not me, painted wolf, or Jose Fly.

Response: What is this, some kind of mind game? First of all, I didn't call you a liar. I said you are being hypocritical. I'm asking for proof of ToE. What on earth did you think I was doing this whole time? Then when I asked for proof, you responded to that request. Therefore, you are providing proof. I've been saying the whole time that in order to know something evolved, you have to see it and no one has done that. This whole time here, and just in one of your last responses, you've been providing evidence to "PROVE" just that. So if I'm requesting proof that as to whether someone has seen evolution and you answer that you have it, then your providing PROOF.
You asked for a post as proof, well out of the many, here's one:
Post 1300 of page 130.

[Fatihah]

[QUOTE Autodidact]Did I say it was a lie?(End quote)

Response: No. I never said you did.

(/Quote Autodidact)
I can't do it any more. I can't say the same things over and over and over again. YOu will be the first creationist I've given up on. You are incapable of learning. *sigh*

NOT ONE SCIENTISTS. EVERY SCIENTIST. EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO ACTUALLY EXAMINES THE ORGANISM. YOU CAN DO IT TOO. THERE'S NO ONE TO STOP YOU. GO AND LOOK. YOU WILL SEE THE SAME THING. THIS IS THE TEST THAT EVERY BIT OF SCIENTIFIC DATA MUST PASS.[/quote]

Response: There's the statement. Yet we don't have the proof. You can't see something that doesn't exist.

[JMorris]

Originally Posted by Fatihah

You can't see something that doesn't exist.

truer words were never spoken........... you could build a number of iron houses from the vastness of this irony.

[Mestemia]

Originally Posted by Fatihah

Response: Exactly. You've presented sites of scientists saying that they've seen evolution. That's not " PROOF." Simply saying that someone has seen evolution is not proof that it actually happened. To say otherwise is completely absurd.

You have just eliminated every single eye witness account.
There goes your koran as proof.

Originally Posted by Fatihah

Response: How hypocritical is this. You've been saying for the longest that you have proof then now you say it's not about proof.
And how on earth is it not about proof in a debate in which the point is to know the proof?

Define proof.

(

Originally Posted by Fatihah

Response: That's not proof of evolution. Those are pictures of dogs and you saying that they evolved. That's not proof.

Now you grasp your straws even tighter.

Originally Posted by Fatihah

Response: No, it doesn't.

It does for those who are actually interested in the truth.