Scientific Evidence That Islam is the true religion (reject, prophet)

[Ibn Al Hyderabadee]

Originally Posted by JerryL

Were I a god trying to prove myself over an extended time, I'd have a "claims that prove who I am" section with any number of these... or (considering that I am all powerful), I'd simply appear to everyone indiviually and say "hey! I'm God"

you already have a thought that if God existed (i know he exists) He woudl be like this, and even if God were to come to you and say Hey Im God then you would reject it like you reject now because you wont see God as you expected Him to be. Thus making this completely pointless.....God exists jsut the fact that science or anythign else for that matter cnat explain the inborn need of man for a higher being or the phenomenon of majority of mankind believing in God, should be sufficient to prove it to you that He exists.

[Halcyon]

Originally Posted by Ibn Al Hyderabadee

...but the Quran was written, it was put into order after his death according to the way he recited it.

Any questions??

I thought they rearranged it in order of length?

[JerryL]

Im tlakign about respected schoalrs of islamic studies, not bigoted ones with agendas. If we were to include everyone into the pool of opinions, some have even rejeced the existence of the Prophet Muhammad (Sal Allahu Alayhi wa Sallam). I admit, I shouldve clarified this point more.

No you are not, because you've not cited a single source. Further, you are diagreeing with Britannica, Wikipedia, and any of a slew of Muslim sources.

Transmission from 612-632? – Muhammad never ordered the Koran to be written down, and when first asked to do so by Abu Bakr, Zaid ibn Thabit refused, arguing that he had no right to do so if Muhammad hadn't thought it necessary. (The wonderful memory of the Arabs has been overstated. For example, if we compare versions of the elegy 'Itabah' in different tribes we see significant variations.) Some verse were apparently written down, but we're not told which ones and we have no idea how they were preserved. What happened to the scraps after codification? They couldn't have been just chucked away – what sacrilege!

That's written by a Muslim (Alphonse Mingana), and edited by a Muslim (Ibn Warraq)

Here's any number of classic studies done mostly by Mulisms: http://debate.org.uk/topics/books/origins-koran.html. In no case is the Quran writtin durin gthe life of Mohammed though one or to say there's reason to *suspect* that *parts* may have been written during his life.

did the Prophet Muhammad (May Allah's Peace be upon him) live at the same time as Jesus (May Allah's Peace be upon him)??? What history books are you reading, or are you pulling things out your but again???

No, he lived from 570-632 CE, though I have not personally asserted that the Quran was not written for hundreds of years, I've simply asserted that it was not written until after his death.

Your pic didn't come up because you are a new account.

Is this sufficient evidence or should I give a bit more analysis. You knwo what I will, if you turn to one of the verses in thsi Qurna you will see a drop of blood on it and it was reported that this is the drop of blood that feel on the quran right before uthman passed away whiel reading it. Thereis also a chain of people goign back to Uthman that shows who got possession of it form who and who form who goign back to Uthman. I dont think any other history has been preserved in a better way.

I used to live next to a car dealership with an oil-stain on the window that was reported to be the Virgin Mary.

Do you have any proof that the Quran was written down during Muhammed's life? If so, please post it. If not, perhaps you should stop tossing stones from that rather glassy house.

This is the letter sent to the King of the Coptic Christians in Egypt, which BTW you should research deeply yourself and find the relationship between the "ankh" and cross.

Although Jesus is certainly at least shares sources with Osiris and Horus, the former of whom was killed and rose again and now sits in the afterworld presiding over the dead; I'm not sure what that has to do with Islam.

BTW, you pic didn't show.

The reason for using shoulder bones and leaves and rocks was simple, the people wanted to be the first to write down the revelation as it came.

Please support the claim that this actually happened.

(so you are asserting tha tmerchants had nothing to write on? That had to make accounting tough. How, exactly, does one write on a leaf anyway?)

Any questions??

Why are there multiple versions? Why doesn't the oldest version (found in Yemen in 1979) match the modern ones? Why can't Muslims agree on what a perfectly written book actually says?

[JerryL]

you already have a thought that if God existed (i know he exists) He woudl be like this, and even if God were to come to you and say Hey Im God then you would reject it like you reject now because you wont see God as you expected Him to be. Thus making this completely pointless.....God exists jsut the fact that science or anythign else for that matter cnat explain the inborn need of man for a higher being or the phenomenon of majority of mankind believing in God, should be sufficient to prove it to you that He exists.

Then he would only appear to those who wanted to believe in him. Certainly the world has about 5 billion non-Muslim theists who would accept such a God. Despite you protestations, I would as well.

Of course, if a personal appearance ain't gonna do it, a book won't either. Especially such an opressive and inaccurate one with such an unlikely premise.

The universe is run by pink unicorns. They would prove that to you, but you would just reject them so they are not bothering.

See how that assertion works for abosultely everything? More to the point, it doesn't work for anything. It's you admitting that you have no ground to stand on and so resorting to personal accustion to pretend like the basic flaw in your argument doesn't exist. It's a common tactic.

[painted wolf]

The other problem is, of course, that every religion seems to have wrong-facts.

I suspect this has more than a little to do with every major religion interested in the origin of man and the universe, but predating the sciece that determined what that origin was. As such, the guesses of priests were not actually accurate. If, in fact, a God wanted to place some clear, consise, and indesputeably unknowable facts in a bok it would be pretty simple.

I could put down the speed of gravity for example, or the weight of Venus. I could give dimensions for a celestial body. It would be trivial, in point of fact, to put down any number of specific claims which could be established by ever more elaborate technologies thereby consistantly revalidating my claim.

"For a given object, the rate of movement through time occurs relative to the speed of said object through space".

so the fact that Mayans could predict solar eclipses by type and location means that they are in fact the true religion. God after all taught them the mathmatical equasions to do this so they could perform the proper ceremonies at the proper times.
Guess than the Mayan codexes are the true written word of god.

Now if Creator thought that the weight of Venus would have any bearing on the lives of the Maya (or really us as well) I'm sure he would have mentioned that too.

wa:do

[Mujahid Mohammed]

Originally Posted by JerryL

The other problem is, of course, that every religion seems to have wrong-facts.

I suspect this has more than a little to do with every major religion interested in the origin of man and the universe, but predating the sciece that determined what that origin was. As such, the guesses of priests were not actually accurate. If, in fact, a God wanted to place some clear, consise, and indesputeably unknowable facts in a bok it would be pretty simple.

I could put down the speed of gravity for example, or the weight of Venus. I could give dimensions for a celestial body. It would be trivial, in point of fact, to put down any number of specific claims which could be established by ever more elaborate technologies thereby consistantly revalidating my claim.

"For a given object, the rate of movement through time occurs relative to the speed of said object through space".

That would have been unknowable and untestable by Muhammed, and verified easily by us.

Were I a god trying to prove myself over an extended time, I'd have a "claims that prove who I am" section with any number of these... or (considering that I am all powerful), I'd simply appear to everyone indiviually and say "hey! I'm God"

You still make claims with no evidence just your own personal statements.

[Mujahid Mohammed]

Originally Posted by JerryL

No you are not, because you've not cited a single source. Further, you are diagreeing with Britannica, Wikipedia, and any of a slew of Muslim sources.

Transmission from 612-632?

– Muhammad never ordered the Koran to be written down, and when first asked to do so by Abu Bakr, Zaid ibn Thabit refused, arguing that he had no right to do so if Muhammad hadn't thought it necessary. (The wonderful memory of the Arabs has been overstated. For example, if we compare versions of the elegy 'Itabah' in different tribes we see significant variations.) Some verse were apparently written down, but we're not told which ones and we have no idea how they were preserved. What happened to the scraps after codification? They couldn't have been just chucked away – what sacrilege!

That's written by a Muslim (Alphonse Mingana), and edited by a Muslim (Ibn Warraq)

Here's any number of classic studies done mostly by Mulisms: http://debate.org.uk/topics/books/origins-koran.html. In no case is the Quran writtin durin gthe life of Mohammed though one or to say there's reason to *suspect* that *parts* may have been written during his life.

the companions wrote it down on leaflets and anything they could find. Zaid ibn Haritha and his wife along with a few others wrote down the Quran on whatever things they had at the time. Rocks, leafletts etc.

No, he lived from 570-632 CE, though I have not personally asserted that the Quran was not written for hundreds of years, I've simply asserted that it was not written until after his death.

WRONG! it was written before his death, but compiled in a actual book form in the time of Abu Bakr. You claim muslims back then had bad memories you are delusional. there are scholars of Islam then who memorized over 600,000 hadith of the Messenger with the chains. All of them were hafiz in Quran. 99.5 percent of the muslims in that time were Hafiz. You just keep displaying your lack of knowledge of the Islamic scholars and authentic sources. Their love and respect for knowledge is something none of us will ever achieve and their fear of God is something that should be admired for it is something that is missing in todays society. You talk about people and yet you know nothing about them.

do you have any proof it was written in the time of the messenger.

The History of the Qur'anic Text from Revelation to Compilation : A Comparative Study with the Old and New Testaments (Muhammad Mustafa al-Azami)

(so you are asserting tha tmerchants had nothing to write on? That had to make accounting tough. How, exactly, does one write on a leaf anyway?)

the same way you write on a wall or rock or paper with some type of ink Duh.

Why are there multiple versions? Why doesn't the oldest version (found in Yemen in 1979) match the modern ones? Why can't Muslims agree on what a perfectly written book actually says?

the oldest one is not from Yemen. There are not multiple versions. There is only one. The problem was the arabs used alot of different dialects(same words just little different pronunciation). The meaning and context never changes so they added the diacrimatical marks to make people pronounce it in the oiginal tongue of the Messenger just another way to make people do as he did. When the compilation was done Two witnessess were brought for every verse individually. It is in the hadiths And there are many great Islamic sources to get this from. It is common knowledge.

Do you have any proof that the Quran was written down during Muhammed's life? If so, please post it. If not, perhaps you should stop tossing stones from that rather glassy house.

speak for yourself. Get this book if you truly want to know The History of the Qur'anic Text from Revelation to Compilation : A Comparative Study with the Old and New Testaments (Muhammad Mustafa al-Azami)

[Ibn Al Hyderabadee]

My following posts will be spit into many parts to reach the 15 posts restriction in order to post pics.
itten during his life.[/quote]

[Ibn Al Hyderabadee]

BTW Mujahid, has very good points.

[Ibn Al Hyderabadee]

Now to respond to you...please read a basic book on Islam written by Muslims and not possers.