Can Religion be logical?

[tumbleweed41]

Although your basic philosophy seems a bit deistic, I am curious as to how you came to the conclusion that humans are not confined to natural law and are thus "designed" for a specific purpose.

[designedhumanist]

Originally Posted by tumbleweed41

Although your basic philosophy seems a bit deistic, I am curious as to how you came to the conclusion that humans are not confined to natural law and are thus "designed" for a specific purpose.

Humans live in a parallel system to nature. We are completely dependent on it, but it has no need for us. We don't fit into the natural order since we are not constrained by its self-correcting mechanisms and thus are the only species that can truly destroy nature. (We have a special position of responsibility towards the environment for this reason).

Nature removes aberrations to its system and it is illogical that we were produced by it.

If we were created by God, it was for a purpose. Nothing exists without there being a reason for its existence.

[tumbleweed41]

Originally Posted by designedhumanist

Humans live in a parallel system to nature. We are completely dependent on it, but it has no need for us. We don't fit into the natural order since we are not constrained by its self-correcting mechanisms and thus are the only species that can truly destroy nature. (We have a special position of responsibility towards the environment for this reason).

Nature removes aberrations to its system and it is illogical that we were produced by it.

If we were created by God, it was for a purpose. Nothing exists without there being a reason for its existence.

I have often found it odd when people refer to humans as being outside of nature. This homo-centric philosophy ignores some of the most prolific and enduring aspects of biology. Not to mention the notion that nature is limited to one simple planet.
And it seems that you have anthropomorphized nature itself as having a specific purpose and intelligence.

[Penumbra]

Originally Posted by designedhumanist

Normally religion is only a matter of faith and the logic of science doesn't apply. Other than the concept of Designed Humanism, are there other religions that can combine God with a belief in logic?

From my observation, there appear to be:
-Some truly illogical religious ideas.
-Some religious ideas that are logically constructed from points that were later proven to be incorrect. So the conclusions follow from the premises but the premises are wrong.
-Some religious ideas that are logically constructed from points that may either be true or not known to be true or false yet. So conclusions follow from uncertain premises.

[designedhumanist]

Originally Posted by tumbleweed41

I have often found it odd when people refer to humans as being outside of nature. This homo-centric philosophy ignores some of the most prolific and enduring aspects of biology. Not to mention the notion that nature is limited to one simple planet.
And it seems that you have anthropomorphized nature itself as having a specific purpose and intelligence.

We are not completely outside of nature, no. We are in a parallel system that originated from nature. We have our own system of controls that do not follow the self-regulatory controls of every other species on the planet. We are still dependent on and subject to nature.

Nature is a system, not a entity. Systems have rules. We don't always follow those rules.

Are we not unique on this planet in a way that is completely dissimilar to other species' uniqueness?

[tumbleweed41]

What exactly are those rules of nature humans do not follow?
And how did you come to the conclusion that these are natural rules?

[designedhumanist]

Instinct. It keeps other species within the order of the natural system. We can choose to follow instinct or not.

If I see a beautiful woman, I can control my instinctive urges and remain faithful to my wife. Do animals do this?

[Reptillian]

I'm a fan of the idea that religion is, at it's core, irrational. We humans think by splitting the world up into little chunks and definitions, then relating those definitions. Mathematics itself is a refinement of this process. The 20th century logician and mathematician Kurt Gödel showed that this method of knowing truth has it's limitations with his incompleteness theorems.

"Either mathematics is too big for the human mind, or the human mind is more than a machine" - Kurt Gödel

If universal truth is necessarily beyond our rational understanding due to our way of thinking, then I hold hope that it can be experienced. This is similar to Zen Buddhism philosophically. For me, thats what religion is... not understanding truth or god, but experiencing them. That's why I'm an agnostic; I have yet to experience such a thing.

Blaise Pascal thought that the best reason could hope to accomplish is agnosticism and that a leap of faith was required to experience the divine.

"We know truth, not only by the reason, but also by the heart, and it is in this last way that we know first principles; and reason, which has no part in it, tries in vain to impugn them.......And it is as useless and absurd for reason to demand from the heart proofs of her first principles, before admintting them, as it would be for the heart to demand from reason an intuition of all demonstrated propositions before accepting them." - Pascal

[tumbleweed41]

Originally Posted by designedhumanist

Instinct. It keeps other species within the order of the natural system. We can choose to follow instinct or not.

If I see a beautiful woman, I can control my instinctive urges and remain faithful to my wife. Do animals do this?

Yes.

Gibbons, swans, black vultures, french angelfish, wolves, albatrosses, prairie voles, turtle doves, bald eagles, beavers, etc....

Human desire to form pair bonds is natural. It contributes to survival and is a result of both biological and societal evolution.

The anthropocentric separation of homo sapiens from nature is hardly logical or reasonable.

[designedhumanist]

Those animals are not choosing. They feel instinctive compulsion. I can use rationality to make my decision. I can imagine a different reality than the one that exists and act direct toward making that my new reality. Which animals do that?