Christians: Predestination? (Earth, salvation, elder, choices, choice)

[groovydancer88]

Do you believe that everything happens for a reason - that God has a specific purpose for every little thing that happens on the face of the earth? Is this the same thing as believing in predestination? Or do you believe that God stands back and lets things happen? Is it possible to believe in both? Why or why not? What role does free will play in this?

[Melody]

Originally Posted by groovydancer88

Do you believe that everything happens for a reason - that God has a specific purpose for every little thing that happens on the face of the earth? Is this the same thing as believing in predestination? Or do you believe that God stands back and lets things happen? Is it possible to believe in both? Why or why not? What role does free will play in this?

Predestination, as in God picks out those who will reach salvation and then guides them in that direction.....and everyone else is just sort of screwed? No, that's definitely not in my belief system.

I also don't believe that God "stands back" as that would imply that He just plopped us down on this ball of dirt and we're nothing but an ant farm to Him. That's also not in my belief system.

I do believe that we have free will and that we all have the opportunity for salvation. It just happens that God already knows who will answer and who will turn their backs because he can see all the way to the end (the beginning?).

[Master Vigil]

"It just happens that God already knows who will answer and who will turn their backs because he can see all the way to the end (the beginning?)."

Then he already knows, and therefore it is already planned. If we had complete free will, god wouldn't know because of course it would be up to us. But if he knows, and can't be surprised, than it is predestined.

[Melody]

Originally Posted by Master Vigil

"It just happens that God already knows who will answer and who will turn their backs because he can see all the way to the end (the beginning?)."

Then he already knows, and therefore it is already planned. If we had complete free will, god wouldn't know because of course it would be up to us. But if he knows, and can't be surprised, than it is predestined.

Knowing how people will ultimately choose doesn't mean we didn't have free will to start with. It just means he knows what our choices will be. They're still our choices.

[Master Vigil]

They may be our choices, but if god knows which choices we will choose it is because he is above our free will. And if god is above our free will, than even our free will is predestined.

[No*s]

Originally Posted by groovydancer88

Do you believe that everything happens for a reason - that God has a specific purpose for every little thing that happens on the face of the earth? Is this the same thing as believing in predestination? Or do you believe that God stands back and lets things happen? Is it possible to believe in both? Why or why not? What role does free will play in this?

I believe in both. My first statement is that God's nature and the way His knowledge works is beyond our comprehension. OTOH, I also accept God as active and having intervened in history to bring it to the conclusion He desires. In this sense, everything in history happens for a reason, and He is ultimately in control.

I know that my actions are my own, and not God's, and that I am responsible for them. Most Christians accept being culpable for what we do, and God isn't to blame if I go out and beat an elderly woman; He has granted us the ability to choose.

So, I believe that God lets things happen, and that God has an overarching purpose. Why? <cliche>Divine revelation</cliche> Of course, there is also the fact that I believe in a God in control of history, but I can also see that I have partial control of my own actions.

How does God's allowance and active deciding work? I don't have the foggiest. He is God, after all.

[groovydancer88]

Originally Posted by No*s

I also accept God as active and having intervened in history to bring it to the conclusion He desires.

Other than the obvious - sending us his one and only son to be sacrificed - how so?

[No*s]

Originally Posted by groovydancer88

Other than the obvious - sending us his one and only son to be sacrificed - how so?

God raises and lowers nations. Israel, for instance, was created by Him, and then, He sent it into exile and brought it back. He raised up the Roman Empire in preparation for the Gospel, maintained it, but when she began actively trying to compromise the faith, He destroyed her. A monk even explained that the crown would pass from Constantinople to Moscow, a "Third Rome." Russia, then, suffered a similar fate.

I believe God answers prayers, and He will even still perform miracles. The Holy Light, for instance, still comes every year, a miracle operating like clockwork. I have a thread on it here. I do believe God still heals when He wants (it's a miracle, and I only know two that recur regularly).

I, thus, believe God still works .

[keevelish]

Knowing how people will ultimately choose doesn't mean we didn't have free will to start with. It just means he knows what our choices will be. They're still our choices.

totally agree with you.

[Scuba Pete]

God knows when he is coming again... but he doesn't know WHO is coming. He can be surprised and the Old Testament shows this. There are many things that God does without being a respector of persons:

Matthew 5:44 But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?