Christian: Imputed Righteousness and Christ's Work (Jesus, Creator, Earth, salvation)

[Joannicius]

We do not partake of the Eucherist (Body of Christ) with the "stain" of sin sullifying our soul, mind and body as the All Precious Grace granted us when we prepare through Baptism, Repentance, Confession and Absolution enables poor sinners like ourselves to approach the Holy Eucherist with out being burned up or as Paul the Apostle cautioned us that if we do take it unworthily, we risk sickness and death as the result.

The very reason we (Orthodox Christians) have closed communion.

[Joannicius]

Precept

Very God says that He doesn't dwell in any "temple made with hands" Nor does He reside in the vicinity of anything human! No matter how ill-conceived! or well intentioned the desire of those humans to represent His divinity in the form of worship to Him.

What is the source of this fact?

[Joannicius]

The Church has never believed as you stated that we are degridant sinners at birth. We are not guilty before God until we commit sin. Have you ever in the scriptures seen where anyone was told they bear the guilt of Adams sin.......
no, we bear the results of his sin which is suffering and death but not the guilt. i.e. I was without sin until the time I counsciencly went against the Spirit of God.

This is why the doctrine of the RC of immaculate conception is in error because since the RC church believe as you do that we are born guilty they had to invent a doctrine to have her sinless so the Holy Spirit could conceve Christ God in her womb.

We do not have infant baptism to cleanse the infant of sin but to correctly baptize them into the Body of Christ literally and physically through the hallowed waters of baptism.

It would be an unjust God who would born us into the world damned with the guilt of sin!!!

I could site many scriptures, but it seems you are quite versed in the scriptures so I will just end with one ....... Christ in You the Hope of Glory

Hating the sin is a good place to start, but loving righteousness is hard work!

[precept]

Originally Posted by Joannicius

The Church has never believed as you stated that we are degridant sinners at birth. We are not guilty before God until we commit sin. Have you ever in the scriptures seen where anyone was told they bear the guilt of Adams sin.......
no, we bear the results of his sin which is suffering and death but not the guilt. i.e. I was without sin until the time I counsciencly went against the Spirit of God.

This is why the doctrine of the RC of immaculate conception is in error because since the RC church believe as you do that we are born guilty they had to invent a doctrine to have her sinless so the Holy Spirit could conceve Christ God in her womb.

We do not have infant baptism to cleanse the infant of sin but to correctly baptize them into the Body of Christ literally and physically through the hallowed waters of baptism.

It would be an unjust God who would born us into the world damned with the guilt of sin!!!

I could site many scriptures, but it seems you are quite versed in the scriptures so I will just end with one ....... Christ in You the Hope of Glory

Hating the sin is a good place to start, but loving righteousness is hard work!

Psalm 51:5-..."....I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me"....The prophet David.

Genesis 3:16..."Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception, in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children[labor pains are the result ever since]

Romans 6:23...."The wages of sin is death........". Do babies die --at birth---during birth---or after birth? If they so die and the wages of sin IS DEATH.... then they, like David said, were born sinners.

But here it is clearly stated by Paul...."As in Adam all died[sinners die] "even so in Christ shall "All" be made alive" "All" include "babies". 2 Corinthians 15:22.


precept

[angel888]

Precept,



There is no necessity prompting the idea of imputed righteousness. In fact, there is much to discredit such a concept. One is that it throws out the idea of forgiveness. It seems clear that God extends to us an ongoing forgiveness of sins (1 John 1:7-9; Matt. 6:12).

But the question is, what sins? How can God forgive a sin that He cannot see? How can He extend pardon to one who, positionally, is just as righteous as Jesus Christ? If I am viewed as perfect, why is there ever a need that I be forgiven?
If imputed righteousness is true, it is doubtful that God could ever discipline His children, as the author of Hebrews says He does (Heb. 12:6). Discipline us for what? We are sinless in His eyes, according to the popular view. Some have tried to make an arbitrary distinction between our legal standing before God and our communion with Him as our Father. But this is contrived. The Bible does not teach that we have two relationships with God.

John, in effect, denied the idea of imputed righteousness when he wrote, "Let no one deceive you. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he [Christ] is righteous" (1 John 3:7). What could be further from the view that he who stands judicially righteous is righteous, just as Christ is righteous?



Angel

[precept]

Originally Posted by angel888

[b]John, in effect, denied the idea of imputed righteousness when he wrote, "Let no one deceive you. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he [Christ] is righteous" (1 John 3:7). What could be further from the view that he who stands judicially righteous is righteous, just as Christ is righteous?

The scriptures clearly teach that "All our righteousness is "filthy rags" in the eyes of God. Isaiah 64:6 This condition would make each and every human unacceptable to live in God's kingdom, whether in heaven or on earth...and no matter how righteous he may be.

The bible also clearly teaches that "And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie ....." Reve;lation 21:27

The above makes it impossible to enter God's kingdom except "only those who accept the atoning sacrifice of Christ can be saved." Such a saved sinner is covered by the righteousness that is by faith in his Saviour Jesus Christ the Righteous. Such a saved sinner remains saved as long as his sins "is ever before him", just as was "God's friend's ", the prophet David's sins... Psalm 32:5; Psalm 51:1-5

No "Angel"! The kingdom of God is not about whether you are free from sin totally, or at some point in time. The kingdom of God is " righteousness and peace and joy in the Lord.. This righteousness is by faith in the atoning sacrifice of the Son of God. This righteousness makes the sinner like David so hate sin that when the sinner sins, he asks His Saviour for forgiveness. He does not ask for forgiiveness because he "wants to go to heaven" he asks forgiveness because he like David is sorry that he has sinned against his Saviour and Benefactor and friend, Jesus. This hating of sin by the saved sinner brings the sinner to His Saviour whenever he sins. It is only in this way that any sinner is saved. There is therefore never any merit for salvation on the part of the sinner; and he is only saved on the merit of His Saviour's Righteousness...and only as he desires to apply this merit in hating sin as His Saviour and God hates sin.

Because the sinner can only be saved on the basis of "Righteousness"...the saved sinner must have a righteousness, not his own--his righteousness is another's--his Saviour's.


precept

[angel888]

If we do not persevere, we shall not reign with him. In other words, Christians can forfeit heaven." Ye shall be saved if Ye endure to the end."

The Bible makes it clear that Christians have a moral assurance of salvation (God will be true to his word and will grant salvation to those who have faith in Christ and are obedient to him [1 John 3:19–24]),

The Bible does not teach that Christians have a guarantee of heaven. There can be no absolute assurance of salvation. Writing to Christians, Paul said, "See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God’s kindness to you, provided you remain in his kindness, otherwise you too will be cut off" (Rom. 11:22–23; Matt. 18:21–35, 1 Cor. 15:1–2, 2 Pet. 2:20–21).

Note that Paul includes an important condition: "provided you remain in his kindness." He is saying that Christians can lose their salvation by throwing it away. He warns, "Whoever thinks he is standing secure should take care not to fall" (1 Cor. 10:11–12).

If someone asks me have you have been "saved," you should say, "I am redeemed by the blood of Christ, I trust in him alone for my salvation, and, as the Bible teaches, I am ‘working out my salvation in fear and trembling’ (Phil. 2:12), knowing that it is God’s gift of grace that is working in me."

Angel

[angel888]

The apostles taught and what the Bible teaches: We are saved by grace alone, but not by faith alone which is what "Bible Christians" Teach

When we come to God and are justified (that is, enter a right relationship with God), nothing preceding justification, whether faith or good works, earns grace. But then God plants his love in our hearts, and we should live out our faith by doing acts of love (Gal. 6:2).

Even though only God’s grace enables us to love others, these acts of love please him, and he promises to reward them with eternal life (Rom. 2:6–7, Gal. 6:6–10). Thus good works are meritorious. When we first come to God in faith, we have nothing in our hands to offer him. Then he gives us grace to obey his commandments in love, and he rewards us with salvation when we offer these acts of love back to him (Rom. 2:6–11, Gal. 6:6–10, Matt. 25:34–40).





Jesus said it is not enough to have faith in him; we also must obey his commandments. "Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ but do not do the things I command?" (Luke 6:46, Matt. 7:21–23, 19:16–21).

We do not "earn" our salvation through good works (Eph. 2:8–9, Rom. 9:16), but our faith in Christ puts us in a special grace-filled relationship with God so that our obedience and love, combined with our faith, will be rewarded with eternal life (Rom. 2:7, Gal. 6:8–9).

Angel

[Green Gaia]

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[Chris]

I believe Christ works in us when we submit our lives to him.

The Church has never believed as you stated that we are degridant sinners at birth. We are not guilty before God until we commit sin. Have you ever in the scriptures seen where anyone was told they bear the guilt of Adams sin.......
no, we bear the results of his sin which is suffering and death but not the guilt. i.e. I was without sin until the time I counsciencly went against the Spirit of God.

That's inconsequential. The fact is we all fall short of the glory of God.

It would be an unjust God who would born us into the world damned with the guilt of sin!!!

No it wouldn't. It's justified because Christ was sent to save the world from sin. Now, had Christ not been sent, then it wouldn't be very just.
Besides, you could say it's just as unjust that he created a world where all must fall short of the glory of God.