Christian: What does the term "Catholic" denote? (gospel, beliefs)

[No*s]

Many Christians confess both the Nicene Creed and the Apostles Creed. Contained in these, though, is a confession of belief in "the Catholic Church."

I would argue that most people are rendering the creeds useless when they do this. Creeds are designed, by nature, to exclude things so that they can set up a limit on what is valid for the community. When I confess, "I believe in one God," I am disallowing polytheism. I cannot be a polytheist and confess this clause.

Further, the term was used in the Early Church in a manner that is meant to exclude people. When St. Ignatius uses it, he is juxtaposing the "Catholic Church" against groups that believed differently than he did. When St. Cyril of Carthage headed the Council of Carthage in the third century, he was addressing the question of whether the Church should accept baptism from schismatic groups. Repeatedly in the council's transcript, we read, "The Catholic Church" requires a valid baptism.

To my knowledge, though, it was never used in some inclusive fashion to include multiple groups with different beliefs. It was always used to exclude other groups. Further, it was used in creeds, which are exclusive by nature.

In short, it does denote a specific Church, and not some vague invisible body. If, however, one may define one part of the creed to mean the opposite of what was written, what point is the creed? It is designed to disallow certain beliefs and put a limit on what the group can say. If we can legitimately make it say anything, then there is no point.

If, however, we still believe it places limits on belief...then on what grounds can someone confess the creeds without at the same time becoming Orthodox Catholic or Roman Catholic? Both groups, at least, consider themselves the Catholic Church, and as such, can honestly confess the clause.

[Bright-ness' Shadow]

Catholic (small "c") denotes universalist and is generally only applied to Apostalic denominations

[No*s]

I made a startling omission. I didn't include the etymology.

The Greek word katholikos is a combination of two words, kata and olos. At one time olos was aspirated, and it begins with a vowle, so the a at the end of kata was dropped and the t is made an aspirated th. The aspirant on olos has long been lost now, though.

The word olos means "whole," and the word kata means "according to." The word literally means "according to the whole," and "universal" is only one possible meaning. It also covers "general," for instance, which is distinguished from "universal."

The term, therefore, refers to the faith of one group as generally found everywhere. A later Father would define Catholic belief as "that which is believed everywhere, always, and by everyone." That is Catholic, not just "universal" but "general." By applying it to the Church, it specifically excludes other groups as not a part of the Church.

[No*s]

Originally Posted by pah

Catholic (small "c") denotes universalist and is generally only applied to Apostalic denominations

However, can you find a single early Christian who used the term to encompass multiple groups, even apostolic ones? They always used it to exclude. I think that even the definition you've given is a modern gloss on the term so as to encompass more people than the sense allows.

[Scuba Pete]

You know,

I guess that's why I never learned them or ascribed to them. The scripture is all I need.

[No*s]

Originally Posted by NetDoc

You know,

I guess that's why I never learned them or ascribed to them. The scripture is all I need.

Well you know the two things I tend to say. It is a Catholic Bible after all, and Sola Scriptura isn't one of it's creeds .

[Scuba Pete]

As I pointed out before... I don't read the word "Catholic" anywhere in the Old or New Testaments. So I guess anyone can read it!

BTW, "Sola Scripture" is man's term... I prefer to stick to the "if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!" creed.

[No*s]

Originally Posted by NetDoc

BTW, "Sola Scripture" is man's term... I prefer to stick to the "if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!" creed.

Wonderful! The Church is always open to new converts to the Gospel .

[SK2005]

The word catholic simply means universal.