LDS Atonement

[Watchmen]

Originally Posted by edward

Do you think that the LDS are the only church group that has or refers to people called "bishop?" I know for a fact that the Catholics do, the Eastern Orthodox do, the Mennonites do, the Amish do, the Methodists do, several charismatic groups do, the FLDS do, the Community of Christ do just to name a few. I guess referring to one's bishop in itself, does nothing to validate one's membership into the LDS organization.

Sorry. Do you have any other references? Perhaps the "etc." you refered to can clear up Clear's religious persuation.

Edward

Do you know how to read in context? This thread is about the "LDS Atonement." The participants have focused on LDS teachings. No one has mentioned Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Mennonite, Amish, Methodist, charasimatic groups, FLDS, or Community of Christ teachings. It is clear to those reading her posts what she meant. I think that's one reason you don't understand our criticism of her - you don't see what she's actually posting while we do.

[Orontes]

Alethia,

You have not responded to the last two posts of mine that focus on an LDS Atonement. This is one example, post 109. This is the other post 110. I took this lack of response that you have nothing more to bring to a LDS Atonement discussion. I then began asking rather general questions about your take on the atonement. This is an example: post 123. You responded once, but have not to the follow up: post 131.

[Orontes]

Alethia,

I have another question. You posted this: "(T)he fulfillment of or attempt to fulfill man's responsibility to God is not a requirement to pay for what the Savior already paid with His blood. He doesn't rescue us according to our efforts". (post 117)

You have also posted this: "One comes to Christ when he realizes that he is sinful and feels a godly sorrow for his sins; his faith is in Christ's blood. That person receives forgiveness of sins, is saved by faith in His blood, and because God began that work in him, he spends the rest of his life following the Shepherd. You do not have to stop sinning in order to receive eternal life; you need to have the desire to stop sinning(do Mormons only baptize sinless people)? " (post 159)


Does a person need to realize he is sinful, feel godly sorrow and have faith in Christ's blood to receive forgiveness and be saved?

[ἀλήθεια]

Originally Posted by Orontes

Alethia,

I have another question. You posted this: "(T)he fulfillment of or attempt to fulfill man's responsibility to God is not a requirement to pay for what the Savior already paid with His blood. He doesn't rescue us according to our efforts". (post 117)

You have also posted this: "One comes to Christ when he realizes that he is sinful and feels a godly sorrow for his sins; his faith is in Christ's blood. That person receives forgiveness of sins, is saved by faith in His blood, and because God began that work in him, he spends the rest of his life following the Shepherd. You do not have to stop sinning in order to receive eternal life; you need to have the desire to stop sinning(do Mormons only baptize sinless people)? " (post 159)


Does a person need to realize he is sinful, feel godly sorrow and have faith in Christ's blood to receive forgiveness and be saved?

It seems we are getting side-tracked once more. This thread is about the LDS atonement. LDS Atonement
If you have questions of non-LDS why not start a thread about non-LDS atonement?

[edward]

So the bottom line is that no one accused Clear of being LDS. Everything was based on innuendo.

Thanks for the clarification.

Edward

[edward]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

I did. And you will be pleased to know that I used the weekend for what it was intended. I decorated nine graves (servicemen and others) with personally created arrangements. My family is big into the holiday and its meaning.

Bless you. As a twenty-one year veteran, I truly appreciate it. I remember all too well, when we veterans were treated very poorly.

Edward

[ἀλήθεια]

Originally Posted by Orontes

Alethia,

You have also posted this: "One comes to Christ when he realizes that he is sinful and feels a godly sorrow for his sins; his faith is in Christ's blood. That person receives forgiveness of sins, is saved by faith in His blood, and because God began that work in him, he spends the rest of his life following the Shepherd. You do not have to stop sinning in order to receive eternal life; you need to have the desire to stop sinning(do Mormons only baptize sinless people)? " (post 159)


Does a person need to realize he is sinful, feel godly sorrow and have faith in Christ's blood to receive forgiveness and be saved?

Instead of answering my question, "do Mormons only baptize sinless people?" you asked me a question. Why didn't you answer my question?




[/quote]

[Watchmen]

Originally Posted by edward

So the bottom line is that no one accused Clear of being LDS. Everything was based on innuendo.

Thanks for the clarification.

Edward

No, Katz and I both explained how she linked Clear to being LDS. Since you didn't respond to our explanations you apparently rejected them without thought or further dialogue.

[Orontes]

Originally Posted by ἀλήθεια

It seems we are getting side-tracked once more. This thread is about the LDS atonement. LDS Atonement
If you have questions of non-LDS why not start a thread about non-LDS atonement?

As noted in the earlier post, I have two distinct posts on the LDS Atonement that you have not replied to. As I explained, I took this to mean you have nothing further to put forward on the topic (as it was initially presented). If you do have something more to add on LDS atonement ideas, then those posts await you. If you do not have anything further, then my other posts await you.

As to my questions to you: given you did answer initially, the fact you do not do so now is odd. Are you unable or simply unwilling? My questions are rather basic, so they shouldn't be so taxing. As to a non-LDS Atonement thread: I'm interested in your particular take on the topic. I am very familiar with a host of approaches to the atonement across a variety of Christian sects and denominations. Since you are the author of this topic and evidently have an extensive library of LDS material that you read: you should be able to both articulate, contrast and compare an LDS stance with your own. It is not unreasonable to know your take on the issue: unless yours is simply to make accusations. Is that the plan: avoid real discussion and simply make bald assertions? If not, then again, my posts await your reply.

Originally Posted by ἀλήθεια

[/size][/font]

Instead of answering my question, "do Mormons only baptize sinless people?" you asked me a question. Why didn't you answer my question?

I don't believe you have ever asked me this question. If you did, when was this? To your question: "Do Mormons only baptize sinless people?" The answer is no. The morally culpable are baptized and it is through baptism one can receive a remission of sins.

[edward]

Originally Posted by Watchmen

No, Katz and I both explained how she linked Clear to being LDS. Since you didn't respond to our explanations you apparently rejected them without thought or further dialogue.

No, you and Katz attempted to explain what you thought ἀλήθεια's thought processes were. This appears to be the norm which is pathetic. It is like me telling you what you think when that isn't the case at all. Neither of you have given any evidence that ἀλήθεια claimed that Clear was LDS. Like I said - only innuendo. You probably won't change your ways, but at least I can point out some weaknesses in your presentations. Now maybe we should get back to the Mormon Atonement. I have seen very few, if any, posts from you addressing the topic, only attacking ἀλήθεια.

Edward