Do God the Father and God the Son have physical bodies? (Jesus Christ, ritual)

[ἀλήθεια]

Originally Posted by Scott C.

My point was not that non-LDS will worship God less. Often, LDS are criticized for their belief in exaltation on the grounds that it's arrogant to think that God will make so much of us in the next life.

Rather than labeling the belief arrogant, they should stick to the fact that is unbiblical.

Originally Posted by Scott C.

Also, critics will say that our doctrine lessens God by implying that we will become like God.

All Christians believe that we are to become like God. That is biblical. They ought to stick to the fact that it is unbiblical to claim man will at some point attain godhood.

Originally Posted by Scott C.

Finally, some say that our doctrine implies that at some point in our eternal future we will no longer worship God.

They do not understand LDS doctrine. Each God will always worship the God he worshipped on an earth such as ours.

Originally Posted by Scott C.

The point of my post was to dispute those claims and to provide food for thought on how the LDS doctrine of exaltation can increase our appreciation, adoration, and worship of the Father, Son and yes, the Holy Ghost also.

Well, those may be LDS reasons to worship God, but those reasons would not apply to Christians. We worship God because He is God, and because He loves us with an unfathomable love.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by ἀλήθεια

Saint would be perfectly suitable.

God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints, and to be had in reverence of all them that are about him. (Psalm 89:7)


And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints. (Rev. 15:3)

I see. We believe that saints are the followers of Christ, and that a person doesn't need to have died in order to be called a saint.

[Scott C.]

Originally Posted by ἀλήθεια

We worship God because He is God, and because He loves us with an unfathomable love.

And so do I.

[edward]

Thank you for taking the time to respond to me. My apologies for not replying sooner.

Originally Posted by Scott C.

This scripture is referring to the resurerction from the dead. Paul is referring to the resurrected body as a "spiritual body". He also differentiates between the mortal body and resurrected body in verse 42, when he says the body will be raised in "incorruption".

I agree.

Originally Posted by Scott C.

When Jesus appeared to the disciples after the resurrection, he said he had flesh and bone. This resurrected body is what Paul refers to as "raised in incorruption" or "raised a spiritual body". If we believe the language "raised a spiritual body" means the resurrection is not actually physical, that contradicts the physical resurrection of Christ.

This not germaine to the topic of pre-existant spirits. However, when you are comparing the resurrection of Christ with that of mortals, I believe that you may be mixing apples and hamburgers. Do you believe that after we are resurrected that we will walk the face of the earth for forty days as our Lord did?

Originally Posted by Scott C.

I believe we existed as spirit beings first, then we came to earth where we were clothed with a physical and corruptible or natural (mortal) body. In the resurrection we will be clothed with a physical and incorruptible (immortal) body which Paul calls a "spiritual body".

So what you are saying is that Paul was mistaken when he said "Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual." I Cor 15:46" (KJV)

Originally Posted by Scott C.

I'm not sure if you believe that we will be resurrected with physical bodies. Do you?

This is what I believe, " 51Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."

IOW, I know not exactly what type of body I may have. I only know that I will shed this corruptible body in exchange for eternal, everlasting life where death reigns no more.

Originally Posted by Scott C.

I'm also not sure if you believe that right now we have a "spirit" which is clothed in flesh. Do you?

Yes. However, I do not believe that it was a pre-existant intellegence that has existed for eternities past.

Thanks again for your response.

Edward

[ἀλήθεια]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

I see. We believe that saints are the followers of Christ, and that a person doesn't need to have died in order to be called a saint.

We follow Christ on earth and we follow Christ after we die. We are God's saints.

Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints. (Psalm 116:15)

In heaven, God is still King of the saints:

And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints. (Rev. 15:3)

[ἀλήθεια]

Originally Posted by Scott C.

And so do I.

So aren't you claiming that you have more reason to worship God than non-LDS:

"The point of my post was to dispute those claims and to provide food for thought on how the LDS doctrine of exaltation can increase our appreciation, adoration, and worship of the Father, Son and yes, the Holy Ghost also."

Why would your doctrine cause an increase in " appreciation, adoration, and worship of the Father, Son and yes, the Holy Ghost also?" Our doctrine states that we do not deserve the blessing of eternal life.

[Scott C.]

Originally Posted by ἀλήθεια

So aren't you claiming that you have more reason to worship God than non-LDS:

"The point of my post was to dispute those claims and to provide food for thought on how the LDS doctrine of exaltation can increase our appreciation, adoration, and worship of the Father, Son and yes, the Holy Ghost also."

Why would your doctrine cause an increase in " appreciation, adoration, and worship of the Father, Son and yes, the Holy Ghost also?" Our doctrine states that we do not deserve the blessing of eternal life.

The greater the gift received, especially when unmerited, the greater the gratitude.

[Scott C.]

Originally Posted by edward

This not germaine to the topic of pre-existant spirits. However, when you are comparing the resurrection of Christ with that of mortals, I believe that you may be mixing apples and hamburgers. Do you believe that after we are resurrected that we will walk the face of the earth for forty days as our Lord did?

I believe when we are resurrected that we will have the same type of body that Jesus has. He set the pattern. He was the first to rise from the dead and opened the door for all to rise from the dead. He was raised incorruptible and we will be raised incorruptible.

While Jesus of course had a different mission from us and in some ways we don't compare with Jesus, I believe that the resurrection of Christ into a body of flesh and bones is an apples to apples comparison with our own resurrection.

So what you are saying is that Paul was mistaken when he said "Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual." I Cor 15:46" (KJV)

I'm not sure what you're telling me that Paul is saying here. If the physical body is created before the spiritual body, are you suggesting that when we're conceived in the womb, that the physical body is first conceived and later God creates the spirit?

Since I believe Paul is talking about the resurrection, which will happen long after the creation of our spirits (whether you believe in a pre-existant state or not), Paul's statement does not answer the question of when our spirits were created.

IOW, I know not exactly what type of body I may have. I only know that I will shed this corruptible body in exchange for eternal, everlasting life where death reigns no more.

Interesting. Do you believe the body will be physical or is that unknown?

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by ἀλήθεια

Our doctrine states that we do not deserve the blessing of eternal life.

Ours states that through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, we can be made clean. If we are, in fact, made clean, and have been made perfect in Him, we are worthy to receive those blessings. A non-LDS Christian attending an LDS Church worship service might find it surprising to hear us described as sons and daughters of God, and not as depraved, wretched sinners. Once we have entered into a covenant relationship with our Savior, and have been given the Gift of the Holy Ghost, there is never a need for us to think of ourselves in any other way, provided, of course, we remain true to the terms of the covenant we've made.

[ἀλήθεια]

Originally Posted by Scott C.

The greater the gift received, especially when unmerited, the greater the gratitude.

You cannot receive a blessing from God without deserving it for your scripture clearly states that you must do X to receive Y. It is a law and obedience is a law of LDS heaven. There are no blessings handed out without the recipient's obedience as a requirement for that blessing.

There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—
And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated. (Doctrine and Covenants 130:20-21)