Christian: Are Christians forgetting that Jesus IS God Himself? (Earth, Isaiah)

[Scuba Pete]

And the devil just loves the confusion of a natural man trying to explain things he cannot understand, because he cannot spiritually discern them, when he doesn't even have the Spirit inside of him.

Amen!

[fromthe heart]

I still must disagree ...In the new testament,in the gospels,there are references to them being seperate although I feel they are of one mind but I still feel they are seperate for this reason...Luke chapter 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended upon Him(Jesus) like a dove. and a voice from heaven said...Thou art my beloved Son;in whom I am well pleased. This to me says there 3. Also the Holy Ghost has to be different because in Matthew 12:32...says that if you speak against Jesus you will be forgiven but if you speak against the Holy Ghost you will NOT be forgiven,neither in this world or in the 'world' to come.

These are just 2 different sets of verses that tell me that the trinity IS. and the 3 are the Father(which Jesus calls Him)...thus GOD, the Son(Jesus), and the Holy Ghost.

Christy...you said you are a Bible study class...you have to be careful just what you teach to BE SURE you aren't teaching your view but that of the Bible. This is not said to be mean but to be a friend to you because we are judged by God for the things we do wrong and you need to be sure of what you teach for not only your sake but to not misinstruct the minds of the young as well. Search the scriptures sweetie and be sure for your own peace of mind. I find you to be a kind loving person who means good but take into account all the scriptures as well as the counsel of others and look at it ALL to be sure.

Smiles...I'm sure you are a wonderful teacher...perhaps like me you are still learning yourself...I think we all learn more and more as we search the scriptures. Have a wonderful day.

[No*s]

FTH,

The passage you quoted is actually one of the stronger passages for the Trinity. Here we have all three beings represented as beings, not as modes, and God affirming that Jesus is the Son of God. Unless we want a heirarchy of descending deities, we have the Trinity (and that heirarchy was created in the fourth century).

Remember, also, that Matthew also has Jesus with the authority to rewrite the Law (Mt. 5-7, where Jesus says things like "You have heard it said of old...but I say to you"), and the baptismal formula, which is tied to the incident you quoted, also has all three persons represented as equals.

EDIT:

It also isn't a problem for the Trinity. It breaks God down like this. We have one God, and He alone is God. He, though, is revealed in three persons. The Son, who is somehow begotten of the Father, and the Spirit, who proceeds from the Father. Don't ask me...I didn't create the terminology .

They are God, just as fire from fire is still fire. However, the Father is the core of the being.

With that definition, we can have three manifestations simultaneously and still have the One God.

[fromthe heart]

Originally Posted by No*s

FTH,

The passage you quoted is actually one of the stronger passages for the Trinity. Here we have all three beings represented as beings, not as modes, and God affirming that Jesus is the Son of God. Unless we want a heirarchy of descending deities, we have the Trinity (and that heirarchy was created in the fourth century).

Remember, also, that Matthew also has Jesus with the authority to rewrite the Law (Mt. 5-7, where Jesus says things like "You have heard it said of old...but I say to you"), and the baptismal formula, which is tied to the incident you quoted, also has all three persons represented as equals.

EDIT:

It also isn't a problem for the Trinity. It breaks God down like this. We have one God, and He alone is God. He, though, is revealed in three persons. The Son, who is somehow begotten of the Father, and the Spirit, who proceeds from the Father. Don't ask me...I didn't create the terminology .

They are God, just as fire from fire is still fire. However, the Father is the core of the being.

With that definition, we can have three manifestations simultaneously and still have the One God.

I don't disagree with you. I,too, believe they are God (in three persons). The concept of us trying to understand God is a joke...we will never fully understand our creator or why He would need to be manifested in 3 persons...but as I stated prior...Matt.12:32. How if they weren't of 3 can you speak against one and not be forgiven if they are all the same?

[No*s]

Originally Posted by fromthe heart

I don't disagree with you. I,too, believe they are God (in three persons). The concept of us trying to understand God is a joke...we will never fully understand our creator or why He would need to be manifested in 3 persons...but as I stated prior...Matt.12:32. How if they weren't of 3 can you speak against one and not be forgiven if they are all the same?

Ah good . I'm sorry. I misunderstood you.

Because the Spirit is the One that brings us to God, remits sin, etc. However, if we resist Him, He cannot heal us, and thus, there is no remission of sin. So, if we attribute His work to the devil (as the Pharisees do in the context), then we are clearly resisting His work, and thus, no remission of sin. We, then, go into the afterlife unable to withstand the presence of God.

This speaking against the Spirit is also a continuous process, not a single event (if you need an explanation of why here, I'll give it, but it can get technical, so I'll omit it for now). So, it refers to our life.

Does that help?

[fromthe heart]

Originally Posted by No*s

Ah good . I'm sorry. I misunderstood you.

Because the Spirit is the One that brings us to God, remits sin, etc. However, if we resist Him, He cannot heal us, and thus, there is no remission of sin. So, if we attribute His work to the devil (as the Pharisees do in the context), then we are clearly resisting His work, and thus, no remission of sin. We, then, go into the afterlife unable to withstand the presence of God.

This speaking against the Spirit is also a continuous process, not a single event (if you need an explanation of why here, I'll give it, but it can get technical, so I'll omit it for now). So, it refers to our life.

Does that help?

Yes...understood again and still agree with you completely. I do know speaking against the Spirit IS a life long thing...no explaination necessary but thanks for the offer.

[chris9178]

Isn't it the Bible that puts the images in our mind of seeing the three figures sitting on their thrones?
ACTS 7:

54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth. 55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. 57

and
Revelation 1:

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. ...........
Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Now the imagery of both of those versus suggests two different entities. God & the Lamb (Jesus Christ). And I'm sure there are many more verses that would support this, but for now that's enough.
Now I'm not saying that your view in the trinity is wrong, but I'm saying that there are reasons people have the views they do.
I'm personally a bit divided and think that both sides may be a bit askew.

PS. I only read the original post, and not the responses (short on time), so if I'm just repeating somebody else forgive me (and kudos for their insight! )

CHRIS

[No*s]

Originally Posted by fromthe heart

Yes...understood again and still agree with you completely. I do know speaking against the Spirit IS a life long thing...no explaination necessary but thanks for the offer.

Good and welcome . I only offer the exlanation in case it is desired, but it's a grammatical thing, so unless a person can read Greek, it really makes little difference.

[No*s]

Originally Posted by chris9178

Isn't it the Bible that puts the images in our mind of seeing the three figures sitting on their thrones?

This is true, but one has to ask a couple of questions. For instance, how could Stephen see the Son sitting at the right hand of the Father? The Father has no body. The statement, taken literally, makes no sense. However, if we take it as an idiom, then it makes perfect sense, and an idiom expressed in a vision. Thus, it is symbolic, not literal.

Revelation, likewise, is symbolic. The Lamb is on the throne of God. He has the authority of God, and the twenty-four elders are gathered round the throne worshipping Him. What we have here is a picture of the authority of Christ. We must remember, apocalyptic literature is written in a sort of code. Its contents are rarely plain and should just as rarely be understood literally, and even then, there are probably multiple meanings behind them.

[keevelish]

Just an interesting analogy of the trinity: God is a triune being that exists in a hyperstatic union

Father, Son, Holy Ghost

God created water that also exists in three states: Solid, Liquid, Gas- but it is still water, just as God is still one God.