Catholic Doctrine

[raibeart]

I am not trying to upset anyone, as I know the Catholic doctrine is one in which many catholics do not like to discuss. I do however have some questions, and would like proof using the Bible alone, unless otherwise noted. I know that the verse pertaining to Peter being the rock Jesus built his church on is your favorite verse, but I would like to keep that verse from being mentioned at all in this discussion.

Papacy Doctrine- Why do you insist on calling the Pope, your Bishops, and you Preists 'father'? When in Matthew 23:8-10, it specificaly says otherwise.

(OT only) Confession- Why must you confess to the Preist, when in the Old Testaments it says that your prayers shall be with G-D and have no mediator?

(In general) Infallible Pope - Is it not said in the Bible that no mane is without sin? Then why do so many believe that the Pope is infallible?

Repitition of prayer- Matthew 6:7-8 states:
7And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like the pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

Crucifiction/Virgin Mary statue - Do any believe that these are idols. Were they not created by mans hand. Are they not workshipped by Catholics?

[Mister Emu]

No worries, I think you will find that the Catholics here are very open to discussion

Papacy Doctrine- Why do you insist on calling the Pope, your Bishops, and you Preists 'father'? When in Matthew 23:8-10, it specificaly says otherwise.

Paul(Gal 4:19) and John(1 John) refer to their audience as their children, if they are his children he is their...?

(OT only) Confession- Why must you confess to the Preist, when in the Old Testaments it says that your prayers shall be with G-D and have no mediator?

Does the "(OT only)" mean you want only responses from the OT? If not, Matt 18:18 "Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

If so, why only OT verses?

(In general) Infallible Pope - Is it not said in the Bible that no mane is without sin? Then why do so many believe that the Pope is infallible?

Matt 16:18 "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
It isn't so much a belief that the Pope is infallible(he is not) but that in certain situations(speaking ex-cathedra) the Holy Spirit will protect the Church from the Pope speaking falsely.

Repitition of prayer

Notice that the verse says "they think they will be heard because of their many words". We believe/know that EVERY prayer is heard, we don't believe that we are heard/more likely to be listened to because of the repitition

We do not worship Crucifixes or statues of Mary.

[raibeart]

Originally Posted by Mister Emu

No worries, I think you will find that the Catholics here are very open to discussion


Paul(Gal 4:19) and John(1 John) refer to their audience as their children, if they are his children he is their...?


Does the "(OT only)" mean you want only responses from the OT? If not, Matt 18:18 "Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

If so, why only OT verses?


Matt 16:18 "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
It isn't so much a belief that the Pope is infallible(he is not) but that in certain situations(speaking ex-cathedra) the Holy Spirit will protect the Church from the Pope speaking falsely.


Notice that the verse says "they think they will be heard because of their many words". We believe/know that EVERY prayer is heard, we don't believe that we are heard/more likely to be listened to because of the repitition

We do not worship Crucifixes or statues of Mary.

OT onyl- The reason I say this is because not enough people will argue a point about there religion from the Tenach. I've heard many reasons regarding the New Testaments, I want to know where the authority comes from, from the Laws of Moses, and why mass is on Sunday and not Shabbat?

Now as far as the Statue of Mary, and the Crucifixes. From what I seen having lived in a Catholic family, as well as and SDA family. By kneeling in front of either statue and kissing the feet or even praying to it in anyway is a for of worship is it not?

[raibeart]

What I ment as well with the Crucifixis and the Statue of Mary, the Pain glass of the Saints. Are not all these Graven images to Catholics?

[Dunemeister]

Originally Posted by raibeart

What I ment as well with the Crucifixis and the Statue of Mary, the Pain glass of the Saints. Are not all these Graven images to Catholics?

Would it make a difference to you if the Catholics said "no"? Would you take their word for it?

[raibeart]

Originally Posted by Dunemeister

Would it make a difference to you if the Catholics said "no"? Would you take their word for it?

Well what I'm looking for is why they believe that these things are not. I mean this thread was to learn why people follow there faiths. Do they follow because they do not study and hope that their priests are telling the truth, or do they actually study and go by that?

[Jordan St. Francis]

In regards to the images, it is understood that they are not graven images. That is, they are not unfitting representations of God or his saints. It is understood that when God delt with Israel among the pagan nations, who worshipped things and false gods, the invisibility of God emerged as his particular defining point (among others). There is thus a certain emphasis on transcendence in the Hebrew Scriptures that underscore the unknowability and otherness of God, less he be confused, as the pagans do, with the things of the earth.

The Incarnation of God in the person of Christ changes our relationship to this question. We might say that, in the Incarnation, God has become more intimate with His creation. He has himself appropriated the matieral, visible world. "The Word became flesh and dwelt among us". God, in Christ, reveals himself through a visible image, for Christ "is the image of the invisible God and the exact representation of his being".

Thus, the matieral world now being restored to peace with the invisible, spiritual in Christ, we can sacralize things of the earth when they are directed God-ward. The images of Christ, the Saints and the stories of the Bible echo the Incarnation of Christ, because they are visible things that represent to us divine truths.