Christians: How to tell if a Prophet is a true Prophet

[madhatter85]

I have moved my comments to this thread from another thread. And i would like 9-10ths penguin to respond even though i posted it as a DIR.

A Prophet does 3 things:

1) Teaches, a Prophet is a teacher. That is the essential meaning of the word. He teaches the body of truth, the Gospel, revealed by the Lord to man; and under inspiration explains it to the understanding of the people. He is an expounder of truth. Also, he shows that the way to human happiness is through obedience to God's Law. the purpose of his life is to uphold the Lord's plan of salvation. all this he does by close communion with the Lord, until he is "full of power, even the spirit of the Lord" (Micah 3:8)

2) Seer. A seer is one who sees with spiritual eyes. He perceives the meaning of that which seems obscure to others; therefore he is an interpreter and clarifier of eternal truth. He forsees the future from the past and the present. This he does by the power of the Lord operating through him directly, or indirectly with the aid of divine instruments such as the urim and Thummim. He is one who walks in the Lord's light with open eyes.

3) Revelator. A revelator makes known, with the Lord's help, something before unknown. It may be new or forgotten truth, or a new or forgotten application of known truth to man's need. Always the revelator deals with Truth, certain Truth and always it comes with the divine stamp of approval. Revelation may be recieved in various ways, but it always presupposes that the revelator has so lived and conducted himself as to be in tune with the divine spirit of revelation, the spirit of truth, and therefore capable or recieving divine messages.

In another sense any worthy church member who has the gift of the Holy Ghost can be termed a "prophet." the bible states clearly -

Numbers 11:29 -

29 And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the Lord’s people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them!

Paul later tells us that prophecy is a "greater gift," to be coveted, and not despised
1st Corinthians 12:

3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

1st Thessalonians 5:

20 Despise not prophesyings.

From this we paint a clear picture that Prophetic voice is clear and concise and not confusing.
Also, Moroni shows us how to judge correctly what is prophetic utterances of God and what are of false prophets.
Moroni 7:16-17

16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.
17 But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him.

False prophesy, by definition, is a prophetic utterance which does not come to pass, or which blinds and leads men astray from the true Doctrine of Christ.

False prophecies can be made out of ignorance (zeal without true knowlege) or from a desire to thwart the plans of God. In either case, Satan is ultimately the beneficiary of the resulting confusion.

The following criteria given by Heber C. Snell is a great one to help us discern between true and false prophesy.

1) "Is the revelator is a disinterested or does he stand to profit from it's acceptance? The prophets must be self-denying to the point of willingness to die for the message."
2)"Is the prophetsi message in harmony with knowlege of the past and present, especially the scriptures?"
3) "Does the prophecy look confidently to the future for the consummation of knowlege and the triumph of Good over Evil?"
4) "What is it's position with refrence to man's freedom? The false prophet is afraid to see intelligence liberated- he fears investigation of ideas lest his own suffer by comparison. Not so the true prophet. As the prophet Joseph smith said, 'I teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves.' "
5) "The greatest of all tests: the tests of accurate results. Does the prophecy come to pass?"
6)"What is the personal integrity of the revelator?"

-Heber c. Snell

[madhatter85]

1) "Is the revelator is a disinterested or does he stand to profit from it's acceptance? The prophets must be self-denying to the point of willingness to die for the message."

Good question, Have any of our prophets profited from the message of the restoration. I have to assert that no they did not. He never made any money off being a prohet and he worked for his own living. also, persecutions and vehement attacks abounded in the days of Joseph Smith, his family and his friends were all at risk of being killed by angry mobs all the time. This behavior of angry mobs is clearly not of God.
2nd Nephi 28:

19 For the kingdom of the devil must shake, and they which belong to it must needs be stirred up unto repentance, or the devil will grasp them with his everlasting chains, and they be stirred up to anger, and perish;
20 For behold, at that day shall he rage in the hearts of the children of men, and stir them up to anger against that which is good.

2)"Is the prophet's message in harmony with knowlege of the past and present, especially the scriptures?"

Clearly it has to be, in regards to LDS scripture, seeing as we dedicate years of our life to studying the scripture and scruitinizing every single detail of the Bible (the only scripture previous to jospeh smith) and looking for contradictions between it and the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of great price. and when interpited correctly nothing conflicts with eachother but instead work harmoniously to combine all knowlege of the past with current revelations for the Dispensation of the Fulness fo times.

3) "Does the prophecy look confidently to the future for the consummation of knowlege and the triumph of Good over Evil?"

Clearly, This message speaks for itself. we look forward to that day of redemption and judgement more so than i think alot of other chrisitans do.

4) "What is it's position with refrence to man's freedom? The false prophet is afraid to see intelligence liberated- he fears investigation of ideas lest his own suffer by comparison. Not so the true prophet. As the prophet Joseph smith said, 'I teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves.' "

Jospeh smith fought for everyone's freedom. and not only secular freedoms such as slavery, and the right to vote. but also from all kinds of bondage. Debts and addictions especially. in fact, women in utah had the right to vote and had been actively voting for years before the women's right movement. also, black men and women lived free in the utah territory long before slavery was abolished.

5) "The greatest of all tests: the tests of accurate results. Does the prophecy come to pass?"

I can assure you that yes this is correct. there has not been a single prophecy uttered by the mouths of our prophets which have not come to pass. There have been fradulent attempts and creating prophesy where there was none by some people throughout history of the church (both in the church and out of it), all have been quickly debunked and deemd fraudulent by not only the church but those outside of it.

6)"What is the personal integrity of the revelator?"

that would make them be subject do deep scrutiny, and another question in my mind is if they are afraid of what people might find in thier past. i can assure you that a person with such strong integrity will not waver or be afraid of what people will discover about them. All the prophets have been under direct scruitiny by secular agencies and groups that lay in wait to try and attack the credibility of the prophets, and they have yet to find anything.

-Heber c. Snell

Thanks Heber for those wonderful questions.

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Originally Posted by madhatter85

I have moved my comments to this thread from another thread. And i would like 9-10ths penguin to respond even though i posted it as a DIR.

A Prophet does 3 things:

1) Teaches, a Prophet is a teacher. That is the essential meaning of the word. He teaches the body of truth, the Gospel, revealed by the Lord to man; and under inspiration explains it to the understanding of the people. He is an expounder of truth. Also, he shows that the way to human happiness is through obedience to God's Law. the purpose of his life is to uphold the Lord's plan of salvation. all this he does by close communion with the Lord, until he is "full of power, even the spirit of the Lord" (Micah 3:8)

2) Seer. A seer is one who sees with spiritual eyes. He perceives the meaning of that which seems obscure to others; therefore he is an interpreter and clarifier of eternal truth. He forsees the future from the past and the present. This he does by the power of the Lord operating through him directly, or indirectly with the aid of divine instruments such as the urim and Thummim. He is one who walks in the Lord's light with open eyes.

3) Revelator. A revelator makes known, with the Lord's help, something before unknown. It may be new or forgotten truth, or a new or forgotten application of known truth to man's need. Always the revelator deals with Truth, certain Truth and always it comes with the divine stamp of approval. Revelation may be recieved in various ways, but it always presupposes that the revelator has so lived and conducted himself as to be in tune with the divine spirit of revelation, the spirit of truth, and therefore capable or recieving divine messages.

Okay... in what way do you think the people in question meet this standard?

Originally Posted by madhatter85

The following criteria given by Heber C. Snell is a great one to help us discern between true and false prophesy.

1) "Is the revelator is a disinterested or does he stand to profit from it's acceptance? The prophets must be self-denying to the point of willingness to die for the message."
2)"Is the prophetsi message in harmony with knowlege of the past and present, especially the scriptures?"
3) "Does the prophecy look confidently to the future for the consummation of knowlege and the triumph of Good over Evil?"
4) "What is it's position with refrence to man's freedom? The false prophet is afraid to see intelligence liberated- he fears investigation of ideas lest his own suffer by comparison. Not so the true prophet. As the prophet Joseph smith said, 'I teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves.' "
5) "The greatest of all tests: the tests of accurate results. Does the prophecy come to pass?"
6)"What is the personal integrity of the revelator?"

-Heber c. Snell

Do the prophecies of the LDS Apostles meet these criteria? What sorts of things did they prophesy?

[madhatter85]

Originally Posted by 9-10ths_Penguin

Okay... in what way do you think the people in question meet this standard?

Do the prophecies of the LDS Apostles meet these criteria? What sorts of things did they prophesy?

Joseph Smith prophesied of the American Civil War 29 years prior to it happening as recorded in the 87th section of the Doctrine and Covenants

1 Verily, thus saith the Lord concerning the wars that will shortly come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls;
2 And the time will come that war will be poured out upon all nations, beginning at this place.

Fort Sumter is in South Carolina where confederate forces attacked. This was the beginning of the hostilities in the American Civil War, and it was South Carolina that led the attack on the northern states

There are also many spcfic details that he prophesied about concerning the southern states calling on Great Britan for aide.

Also that war would be poured out upon all nations after the civil war had ended.

List of wars involving the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

After the Civil war the US has rarely been at peace with wars and contentions tirred up all over the world and they all callign on us for help.

For more prophecies of Joseph Smith please refer to
LDS FAQ: Fulfilled Prophecies of Joseph Smith, the Mormon Prophet

in Summary a list of Prophetic Utterances from Joseph Smith (not complete)

Accurate Prophecies of the Civil War
The Saints to Flourish in the Rocky Mountains
The Liberty Jail Prophecies: Brightness in the Midst of Gloom
The Saints to Escape Enemies Within 5 Years
The Stephen A. Douglas Prophecy
A Prediction of Destruction in Jackson County, Missouri
Condemned to Execution, Joseph Prophesies of Deliverance
Prediction of the Three Witnesses to the Book of Mormon
The Prophetic Book of Mormon
The Prophetic "Word of Wisdom" - (Mormons who follow it live an average of 8-11 years longer than the national average)
Prophetic Miracles Involving Newel K. Whitney
The Hearts of the Children to Turn to Their Fathers (Geneology is huge not only with LDS members but everyoen around the world when it wasn't so big before)
Prediction of Stakes in Boston and New York
Joseph Predicts His Death
Dan Jones to Serve a Mission in Wales
Sidney Rigdon to Be a Spokesman
Healing and Prophecy with the Johnsons in Kirtland
Escape of Stephen Markham
Apostles to Depart from Far West on 26 April 1839\
The miraculous survival of Willard Richards at Carthage Jail on June 27, 1844 (one year prior Jospeh Smith prophesied of the events in the Jail)

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Originally Posted by madhatter85

Joseph Smith prophesied of the American Civil War 29 years prior to it happening as recorded in the 87th section of the Doctrine and Covenants

So... in 1832, near the peak of the Nullification Crisis in which South Carolina was threatening to secede from the United States and President Jackson was threatening to use force against South Carolina in a volatile situation that had all the earmarks of the leadup to the American Revolution, Joseph Smith predicted that the events in filling his newspaper at the time would lead to war? I don't find this particularily compelling. It'd be like someone predicting in 1962 that there would be a war starting in Cuba between the USA and the USSR.

Originally Posted by madhatter85

Fort Sumter is in South Carolina where confederate forces attacked. This was the beginning of the hostilities in the American Civil War, and it was South Carolina that led the attack on the northern states

There are also many spcfic details that he prophesied about concerning the southern states calling on Great Britan for aide.

Also that war would be poured out upon all nations after the civil war had ended.

Does it say that? I read it as saying that the specific conflict that began in South Carolina will eventually grow until it encompasses the entire world, which didn't happen.

Originally Posted by madhatter85

List of wars involving the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

After the Civil war the US has rarely been at peace with wars and contentions tirred up all over the world and they all callign on us for help.

In that list, I see a continuous stream of wars with barely a break from 1775 right up to present day. Why should we consider the Civil War to be any sort of starting point?

Originally Posted by madhatter85

For more prophecies of Joseph Smith please refer to
LDS FAQ: Fulfilled Prophecies of Joseph Smith, the Mormon Prophet

I'll have to look at them when I have time. If I forget, feel free to pester me.

[tomspug]

Woah. I'm having deja-vu!

[madhatter85]

Originally Posted by 9-10ths_Penguin

So... in 1832, near the peak of the Nullification Crisis in which South Carolina was threatening to secede from the United States and President Jackson was threatening to use force against South Carolina in a volatile situation that had all the earmarks of the leadup to the American Revolution, Joseph Smith predicted that the events in filling his newspaper at the time would lead to war? I don't find this particularily compelling. It'd be like someone predicting in 1962 that there would be a war starting in Cuba between the USA and the USSR.

From wikipedia-
The reductions were too little for South Carolina, and in November 1832 a state convention declared that the tariffs of both 1828 and 1832 were unconstitutional and unenforceable in South Carolina after February 1, 1833. Military preparations to resist anticipated Federal enforcement were initiated by the state. In late February both a Force Bill, authorizing the President to use military force against South Carolina, and a new negotiated tariff satisfactory to South Carolina were passed by Congress. The South Carolina convention reconvened and repealed its Nullification Ordinance on March 11, 1833.

It was not entirely predictable that war w