Christians: How to tell if a Prophet is a true Prophet

[madhatter85]

Originally Posted by 9-10ths_Penguin

Thanks.

It was also not obvious that things would settle down.


Hang on a minute. Let's address some of your assumptions:

- the prophecy deals with the Civil War, and not some prior conflict that never happened.
- the use of "beginning" in the prophecy only means "coming earlier in time", and nothing about South Carolina being the root of some worldwide conflict or even it playing some role in the first in a logical chain of events.

Could you please explain your reasoning for each of these?


Actually, there has never been a war like what you describe. A number of nations did not participate in either World War. IMO, there has never been a truly global war.


No, it doesn't use the Civil War as a reference point; you do. The phrase "civil war" does not appear anywhere in the prophecy.

But please describe how using the American Civil War as a reference point in this way is anything other than arbitrary.

It seems like you're reducing the prophecy down to "there will be a war that starts in South Carolina. Later on, there will be a big war." This seems to me to be so vague as to be trivial.

this comes down to how you and I interpit the prophecy differently. To me, i see prophetic utterances that have come to pass and i have shown you how i interpit it.

also i think i would like to mention that no matter who they are or how they are speaking, humans are creatures of flaws. never once have i stated that Joseph smith was perfect or any of the other prophets.

you do not interpit it the same way. so here is where we have the disconnect. but it is okay, there are plenty of other prophecies which have come to pass which we can debate over.

The Roman Catholic Church doesn't believe in continuing revelation? I suppose somebody had better tell them before they name more recently-deceased people saints, and before the Pope speaks ex cathedra again.

that is a vote situation, not a direct revelation from God. it's who the pope and those in power in the vatican deem worthy to recieve thier "sainthood"

And the LDS Church has not filled the entire world. The prophecy has not come to pass.

I stated that already, It is in the process of being fulfilled.

And the main reason the LDS Church is so large is because it was able to find a place where it could grow in its formative years with very little interference or oppression from others, right?

and there's a whole lot of other prophecies in reagrds to that whole story as well.

If you say so. It makes sense to me that Muslim countries would have less of a problem with the LDS Church than with Trinitarian Christianity, if they view Trinitarianism as polytheism.

However, in the Muslim countries I know of where apostasy from Islam is still considered a crime, I haven't heard of any making an exception for Mormon converts.

ah, but if they are accepting of it it would only make sense that they would make the exception.

but that's a "what if" and this is a prophecy which is currently in the process of being fulfilled. so when things settle down we can revisit this particular prophecy, agreed?

If so let's choose another prophecy of his to debate about. and If so, we might even want to move this to the one-on-one debates because i don;t think anyone else is interested in it as it seems

[Minister_E]

Madhatter U said it perfectly

[augusta]

Do you believe a female could be a prophet, seer and revelator?

[augusta]

Please give description of divine instruments which you call urim and thummim.

[madhatter85]

Originally Posted by augusta

Do you believe a female could be a prophet, seer and revelator?

Every person has the ability to recieve revelation for those whom they are in spiritual stewardship over.

For instance, we have female general authorities who are over the Relief Society, Young Women's, and Primary. These women do not hold the priesthood, but instead are set apart for hier callings that they may recieve inspiration on how to teach and instruct their respective stewardships. This pattern mantains itelf all the way down the ranks in the church to the very mother who recieves inspiration for thier children.

I prefer to think of women as already having the most important calling in the world "Motherhood". for without mothers our civilization would abruptly end. Men ont he other hand do not have this calling of bearing and nurturing children. Men, without the priesthood are merely boys with no responsibility. The priesthood is a responsibility, not a power. and it is given to every single male in the church who is worthy to hold it.

so as a formal "Prophet?" no, a woman cannot be a prophet for she cannot bare priesthood of God.

Can a woman "prophesy" for that which she has been given spiritual stewardship over? yes, i have seen it happen. Some call it a "mother's intuition" I see it as thier spiritual calling in life and the greatest responsibility in the entire world.

[madhatter85]

Originally Posted by augusta

Please give description of divine instruments which you call urim and thummim.

there are many descriptions because Urim and Thummim have been used to describe many different things in regards to spiritual discernment. In the Case of Jospeh Smith, i coped the following paragraph from Guide to the Scriptures: Urim and Thummim

Instruments prepared by God to assist man in obtaining revelation and in translating languages. In the Hebrew language the words mean “lights and perfections.” The Urim and Thummim consist of two stones set in silver bows and sometimes used with a breastplate

Joseph Smith only used them for a limited tim as he waxed strong in righteousness and with understanding and discerning the spirit, he no longer required the use of these devine instruments to translate the Book of Mormon from The Golden Plates.

[tomspug]

Moroni 7:16-17
Quote:
16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.
17 But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him.

Once again, the Book of Mormon is wrong on its interpretation of the Bible. The Holy Spirit is NOT given to every man. Man may be God-breathed, created by God, but the Holy Spirit is a gift for those willing to receive it.

Our knowledge of good and evil (as clearly shown by Genesis) is due to the fall of man.

[madhatter85]

Originally Posted by tomspug

Once again, the Book of Mormon is wrong on its interpretation of the Bible. The Holy Spirit is NOT given to every man. Man may be God-breathed, created by God, but the Holy Spirit is a gift for those willing to receive it.

Our knowledge of good and evil (as clearly shown by Genesis) is due to the fall of man.

Actually.........

The holy spirit (Light of Christ) is given to every man, The "Gift" of the Holy Ghost is what is available to all men but first needs be accepted through baptism by immerison

Luke 3:

16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

D&C 33:

11 Yea, repent and be baptized, every one of you, for a remission of your sins; yea, be baptized even by water, and then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost.

Christ is “the true light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world"

John 1:9

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

The Spirit of God (Holy Ghost) is given to every person born.

The Gift of the Holy Ghost (remission of Sins) only comes through baptism.

[yousaf]

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever."(john ch.14 v.16)

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me."(john 15;26)

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".(john ch.16 v. 7)

I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is come, he will guide you unto all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me".
(john 16:12-140