Christian: Salvation (Jesus, ritual, Eden, incarnation, followers)

[Baerly]

God used water to deliver Noah and his family and to kill all the disobedient (Gen.6).

God used water to deliver Israel and to kill the Egyptians (Ex.14)

God used water to cleanse Naaman of leprosy (2Kings 5).

And God is using water baptism today as a line of demarkation between the world and his people (Christians).

Water baptism puts us INTO Christ (Gal.3:27).

No one can be saved outside of Christ,just like no one could be saved outside the ark Noah built. Salvation is in Christ (2Tim. 2:10).

The question is, HOW DO WE GET INTO CHRIST? The bible says we are baptized INTO Christ,when we have our sins washed away in the watery grave of baptism (Acts 22:16). It is at that same time we are baptized into the CHURCH of Christ according to (1Cor.12:13). The bible also says there is BUT ONE BODY or CHURCH according to (1Cor.12:12,13,14,20). (Eph.1:22,23) teaches us that the church is the body. It is for these reasons that the Ethiopian eunich was rejoicing AFTER WATER BAPTISM. You see, he was taught that one is baptized in water to wash away his sins (Acts 22:16) (Acts 2:38),to get into the church (1Cor.12:13),and to be saved (Mk 16:16), No wonder he was so happy.in love Baerly

[athanasius]

Amen,Baerly, I agree with you, and you have made a great point. I tried to make that same point to Mr writer in my post but he seems to ignore the context of the whole of sacred scripture and the clear connetions to this. Pray for him.

Again great points made baerly. The early Christians of the first 8 centuries would agree with you too. Have a awesome day and God bless.
Athanasius

[Baerly]

Let us also note that there was enough water in (Acts 8:38,39))that they BOTH went down into the water both Philip and the eunich...and when they were come up out of the water. If we are to be baptized according to the bible sprinkling will not due. There was enough water for both persons to go down into and then come up out of the water. PLease make note of this very important point.

It must be a BURIAL according to (Rom6:4). If you buried a dog in your backyard you would not lay the dog on the ground and sprinkle a little bit of dirt on him. No,of course not,you would dig a hole deep enough for his whole body to go down INTO,and then cover him with dirt. This is how one is Baptized INTO Christ (Gal 3:27)
(Acts 22:16) (Col.2:12). in love Baerly

[Baerly]

When we are baptized correctly we are to be called Christians (Acts 11:26).

No other name will do (Acts 4:12).

And thou shalt be called by a new name,which the mouth of the Lord shall name (Isaiah 62:2).

We are to speak the same thing and there is to be no divisions among you(1Cor.1:10).

WE are to walk by the same rule and mind the same thing (Phil.3:16).

in love Baerly

[writer]

40 Anytime anyone thinks a persons sins are washed away by literally calling out LORD LORD VERBALLY,they are in error.
To the contrary: Baerly's error in this regard

I do not mean to be ugly,I am just stating facts.
To the contrary: u seem to be stating an untruth

Jesus said It is not enough to call me Lord,Lord,Jesus said DO MY WILL (Mt.7:21) (Luke 6:46) (Heb.5:8,9) (John 14:15,21).
Not enuf 4 whut Baerly? Whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Said Peter and Joel and Paul. This (Ac 2:21; Rom 10:9-14) doesn't contradict Mt 7:21. Baerly. Rather both Mt 7:21 and Ac 2:21 are true. The former concerns Christ's judgment of His believers at the end of this age. For either reward or discipline. Ac 2:21 concerns being born again, justified, initially. Transferring from unbeliever to believer. Permanently. No one can say Lord Jesus! except in the Holy Spirit, wrote the apostle. Paul. The more we call Him, the more we can experience Christ daily, too. And become stronger to do His will. One additional point about calling on the name of the Lord Jesus from the heart (O Lord Jesus): Ac 2:21 precedes also Ac 2:38. Both are true.
The Lord come to you

[athanasius]

Writer isn't it funny that both You and mr Baerly go by sola scriptura. And you both pray for guidence to the Holy Spirit. And you both use the bible alone and both of you dissagree on what it says. Is titus 3:5-7 mentioning water baptism?

YOu Mr writer say no it isn't and you list scriptures to try to prove that. Baerly says it does mean water baptism and he list scriptures too to prove his point. So if your both going by the bible alone and both of you come to a different answer, then how can sola Scriptura solve this problem??

You see what I mean when I asked you those questions earlier. You remember the ones you refused to answer. Here is prime example of why the sola scriptura is false and doesn't work practicly.

Mr writer if you dissagree with Baerly on his intrepretation of titus 3:5-7, then on what Authority do you have Mr writer to dissagree with him?? Scriptural Authority? the Holy Spirit? He would say the same thing to you! you both would go back and forth using the same authority and yet coming to different conclusions on this doctrine of water Baptism and titus. Can't the Sole infallible rule of faith(the bible alone) give christians the doctrinal truth on these issues?

Truth is you have no way of getting to the truth of a doctrine. The early heresies like arianism would use the same principle of quoting scripture to prove thier point. How did the early Church like Athansasius and others decide what is true doctrine? They tested it agaisnt the Tradition and the Churches Authority. I guess as a sola scripturist you just proved that you really have no way of really knowing what Titus says.

Just a observation
Veritatum Facientes in Caritate,
Athanasius

[writer]

"sola scriptura"?

I find that, mebbe, Mr Baerly's posts or views indicate that his reading of Titus 3:5, for example, is influenced by some particular tradition.

Thanx

[Baerly]

OK Writer, let us look what (Acts 22:16) says.

1.Arise - this is a physical getting up

2.Be baptized - This is baptism in water that harmonizes with
(Acts 2:38 ;3:19 ; 8:38,39 ; 22:16 ; 19;1-5).

3. Wash away your sins - notice this happens at the point of water baptism and not before.

4. Calling on the Lord. ING in this verse is showing that as Saul obeys the instructions giving to him by Ananius Saul is calling on the Lord by his (SAULS) obedience. If I say the kids are playING in the yard.The ING means they are playing now.

Please notice that Saul had already called on the name of the Lord VERBALLY on the road to damascus in (Acts 9:5), but he still has his sins days later. This is important to note. Why does he still have his sins after VERBALLY calling on the Lord? The reason is because the blood of Jesus washes our sins away when we are baptized in water (Acts 22:16) . The bible says we are not free from our sins (Rom.6:18),until we obey that form of doctrine delivered to us (Rom.6:17). The Romans obeyed that form of doctrine in (Rom 6:3-6) when they were baptized in water. It was not till then that the bible says they are BURIED WITH HIM (Rom.6:4)

NOTICE THIS ALSO:
(Acts 2:38) says- Repent + Baptism = for the forgivness of sins

(Mt.26:28) This is my blood of N.T. which is shed = for the forgivness of sins.

For those who contend that baptism has no part in the salvation process. Let me point out something. if you contend that sins were washed away before water baptism in (Acts 2:38). Using that same logic, which you would be locked into and could not get around it, is this, Jesus shed his blood of the N.T. BECAUSE SINS WERE ALREADY FORGIVEN (MT.26:28). Now we know that the blood of Jesus had to be shed to forgive sins. Both (Acts 2:38) & (Mt.26:28) has the same sentence structure.

The people asked Peter, Men and Brethren what shall we (do)? (Acts 2:37)

They were asking what they must (do) about the (sin) of Killing Jesus (Acts 2:37)?

They were told to Repent + Be Baptized = for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38).

There were 3000 who were baptized in water that day (Acts 2:41). Evidently they thought it necessary to baptize those people in water immediately. Those who were baptized in water were added to the church by the Lord (Acts 2:47) (1Cor.12:13). in love Baerly

[Baerly]

Originally Posted by athanasius

Writer isn't it funny that both You and mr Baerly go by sola scriptura. And you both pray for guidence to the Holy Spirit. And you both use the bible alone and both of you dissagree on what it says. Is titus 3:5-7 mentioning water baptism?

YOu Mr writer say no it isn't and you list scriptures to try to prove that. Baerly says it does mean water baptism and he list scriptures too to prove his point. So if your both going by the bible alone and both of you come to a different answer, then how can sola Scriptura solve this problem??

You see what I mean when I asked you those questions earlier. You remember the ones you refused to answer. Here is prime example of why the sola scriptura is false and doesn't work practicly.

Mr writer if you dissagree with Baerly on his intrepretation of titus 3:5-7, then on what Authority do you have Mr writer to dissagree with him?? Scriptural Authority? the Holy Spirit? He would say the same thing to you! you both would go back and forth using the same authority and yet coming to different conclusions on this doctrine of water Baptism and titus. Can't the Sole infallible rule of faith(the bible alone) give christians the doctrinal truth on these issues?

Truth is you have no way of getting to the truth of a doctrine. The early heresies like arianism would use the same principle of quoting scripture to prove thier point. How did the early Church like Athansasius and others decide what is true doctrine? They tested it agaisnt the Tradition and the Churches Authority. I guess as a sola scripturist you just proved that you really have no way of really knowing what Titus says.

Just a observation
Veritatum Facientes in Caritate,
Athanasius

My friend, there is a simple answere to this problem. Here it is,one of us is incorrect.We find that Jesus said to some people You do err,not knowing the scriptures (Mt.22:29). Please do not mark us both wrong until we talk abit longer.

When you claim Sola Scriptura will not work,I strongly disagree with you.
(2Peter 1:3) says God has given us (all) things petaining to life and godliness. Jesus then tells us in the faith was ONCE DELIVERED (Jude 3). He did not say we would have other revelations coming later. This was all given within the first century.

I do not expect the Holy Spirit to do (ANYTHING TO) me. The Holy Spirit does things (FOR) us but not (TO) us (Rom. 8:26). in love Baerly

[sojourner]

No one can be saved outside of Christ,just like no one could be saved outside the ark Noah built. Salvation is in Christ (2Tim. 2:10).

One has to define what one means by "outside of Christ." What does that mean? Christ's very incarnation placed God as one of us, thereby reconciling all humanity to God. One of the most beloved ancient hymns of the Church is the Agnus Dei -- "Lamb of God, that takes away the sin of the world..."

If God became one of us in Jesus, If Jesus mitigates the sin of the world, who of us can be "outside" of that???