Christian: Salvation (Jesus, ritual, Eden, incarnation, followers)

[athanasius]

Writer is totally off the mark.

Writer says

"Addition: I personally've no prob callin Christian baptism a "bath of regeneration" (Jn 3:5, 22-23; 1:31, 33; Mk 1:4, 8). However this isn't what Titus, or Titus 3:5 talks about. Not out of works in righteousness which we did but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing [laver] of regereration and the renewing of the Holy Spirit.

Rather, accordin to Titus 3:5, and in 3:5, regeneration (the identical Gk word as Mt 19:28; not the identical Greek word as 1 P 1:23) IS Titus 3:5's washing".

My Answer:

Mr Writer I am not sure where your getting that from. Many bible only Protestants I know also believe this "washing" in Titus to be refferring to Water baptism.

Allow me to quote from a protestant Greek lexical source on what this word "Washing" in titus means.

According to the New testament Greek Dictionary in Strongs biblical concordance This word for washing in Titus is "Loutron" The definition given is "a Bath ie..Baptism". (Strongs Exhaustive concordance of the bible, Greek new testament Dictionary Page 54).

The Early Christians Fathers of the first 3 centuries also viewed this washing to be Baptism. For example

hippolytus


"The Father of immortality sent the immortal Son and Word into the world, who came to man in order to wash him with water and the Spirit; and he, begetting us again to incorruption of soul and body, breathed into us the Spirit of life, and endued us with an incorruptible panoply.

If, therefore, man has become immortal, he will also be God. And if he is made God by water and the Holy Spirit after the REGENERATION of the LAVER he is found to be also joint-heir with Christ after the resurrection from the dead. Wherefore I preach to this effect: Come, all ye kindreds of the nations, to the immortality of the BAPTISM" (Discourse on the Holy Theophany 8 [A.D. 217]).

Or Ambrose of Milan


"The Lord was baptized, not to be cleansed himself but to cleanse the waters, so that those waters, cleansed by the flesh of Christ which knew no sin, might have the power of baptism. Whoever comes, therefore, to the washing of Christ lays aside his sins" (Commentary on Luke 2:83 [A.D. 389]).

Council of Constantinople I


"We believe . . . in one baptism for the remission of sins" (Nicene Creed [A.D. 381]).

Clement of Alexandria


"When we are baptized, we are enlightened. Being enlightened, we are adopted as sons. Adopted as sons, we are made perfect. Made perfect, we become immortal . . . ‘and sons of the Most High’ [Ps. 82:6]. This work is variously called grace, illumination, perfection, and washing. It is a washing by which we are cleansed of sins, a gift of grace by which the punishments due our sins are remitted, an illumination by which we behold that holy light of salvation" (The Instructor of Children 1:6:26:1 [A.D. 191]).



So i do not know where your getting your info from but its incorrect. Again Peter's Point in 1 Peter 3:19-21 is that water baptism is a spiritual cleansing, not a "mere" physical cleansing, not a removal of dirt from the body as Peter says. But a spritual cleansing and initial salvation is given by virtue of Christ cross and the Holy Spirit.

Lets not forget the old testament has plenty of forshadowings or typologies of the saving grace of baptism that I showed. Beggining with Gen 1:2 as the Spirit of God hovers over the waters creating new life, as he will in us in baptism in the new testament.

And Ezekiel : A formal prophecy of Ezekiel puts it this way;
"I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleaness....I will cleanse you. A new heart I will give you and a new spirit I will put within you....And I will put my spirit within you"(Ezekiel 36:25-27)
So God will recreate us and regenerate us spiritually. He will put the Holy Spirit in us and wash away our sins. But he will do this through Water. This prefigures and prophecies the Sacrament of Water baptism and its saving grace. Sorry Writer your just wrong biblically and historically

[writer]

31 Writer is totally off the mark.
Tot'lly? That's why he needs Jesus Christ's savin

Many bible only Protestants I know also believe this "washing" in Titus to be refferring to Water baptism.
Then they (no disrespect) must be makin the same mistake u r. What many, or all, or none, Protestants, nonprotestants, Catholics, noncatholics, anybody, nobody, believes is less important, in this case, then what Titus 3:5 says

According to the New testament Greek Dictionary in Strongs biblical concordance This word for washing in Titus is "Loutron" The definition given is "a Bath ie..Baptism".
To the contrary: the Greek word for baptism's 'baptizo.' Our English word is a transliteration of the Greek word. Meaning, it's a borrowed word. They're essentially the same word, the same spelling, across the 2 languages

wash him with water and the Spirit...made God by water and the Holy Spirit after the REGENERATION of the LAVER...Come, all ye kindreds of the nations, to the immortality of the BAPTISM
I've no prob w/ callin baptism a 'laver' or a 'washing.' And acknowledge baptism's both regenerative and a part of regeneration (Jn 3:5). However, baptizo is nowhere mentioned or implied in the entirety of the book of Titus, including Titus 3:5. 'Washing' and 'regeneration' are not synonyms for baptism in the NT, according to the apostles. Instead, 'washing [laver or bath] of regeneration' in Titus 3:5 is a phrase in apposition. Grammatically. In the Greek. And in the English. Regeneration IS the washing. And does the washing. Regeneration Is the washing. Nor, in the New Testament (Jn 1; 3; etc) is regeneration limited to the act of baptism. The Holy Spirit is the element of regeneration. As the Lord told Nicodemus: That which's born of Spirit is spirit. And Paul: The Spirit witnesses with our spirit that we're children of God. God is Spirit. And He gave us a human spirit (eg Zech 12:1). And when the 2 are joined together, that's regeneration (1 Cor 6:17; Jn 3:6; Rom 8:16)

The Lord was baptized, not to be cleansed himself but to cleanse the waters, so that those waters, cleansed by the flesh of Christ which knew no sin, might have the power of baptism.
This, sorry to say, is an absurd, nonapostolic, and unbiblical statement on the part o' Ambrose. The Lord told His baptizer (John) to baptize Him to 'fulfill all righteousness' (Matthew 3:15). Christ never said, and never would say: 'Baptize me so that I can cleanse water.' This approaches, if it isn't already (on the part of this dear believer in Christ: Ambrose): rank superstition

Whoever comes, therefore, to the washing of Christ lays aside his sins.
Fer sure. Whoever believes into, and experiences, Christ; and everytime we come to Him; should lay aside our sins

We believe . . . in one baptism for the remission of sins
To contrary: baptism does not remit sins. Only Christ's blood, as God's passover lamb, remits sins (John 1:29). Nor is Christ, God, or His blood, limited to the water or act of baptism. To say or suggest that there is no forgiveness of sins apart from baptism is a rank and contemptible heresy. In Acts 2:38, Peter answered his convicted audience's question 'What should we do?' by telling them to repent and be baptized for remission of sins and the Holy Spirit. This is by no means a statement that there's no forgiveness until, or apart from, baptism. As Peter himself pointed out much later in 1 P 3:21. In Ac 22:16, Ananias told Saul to 'be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on His name.' This attributes 'washing away Saul's sins,' especially the sins of 'binding all who call upon Your name' (Ac 9:14), to 'calling on His name.' Not to baptism. Furthermore, if one feels that there's any attribution of 'washing away your sins' to 'be baptized,' then this also, in the case of a very public and notorious persecutor of Christ,' does not contradict 1 P 3:21 and deals with Saul's public confession and testimony in direct rejection of the public sins he committed against Christ and the church earlier

When we are baptized, we are enlightened. Being enlightened, we are adopted as sons. Adopted as sons, we are made perfect. Made perfect, we become immortal . . . ‘and sons of the Most High’...
Amen. Very good. Altho the thot o' Christ and His apostles is absolutely not adoption. It's sonship. God generates (regenerates, bears-anew) His believers. By His Spirit. In their spirit. Eternally. This isn't adoption. Iz birth

...It is a washing by which we are cleansed of sins,
Baptism washes away sins in the sense of Acts 22:16. But not in the sense of 1 P 3:21. These're 2 different senses

i do not know where your getting your info
Frum Bible

but its incorrect.
To the contrary: if there's a disagreement between Clement, Nicea, Ambrose, Hippolytus, you, or me; and the Bible; it's the Bible which's correct

Peter's Point in 1 Peter 3:19-21 is that water baptism is a spiritual cleansing, not a "mere" physical cleansing,
To the contrary: no believer ever thinks, thought, would think, or would have thought, that baptism is a mere bath to remove dirt

a spritual cleansing
Baptism both is, and should be, spiritual. Of the Spirit. From our spirit. In the water. But that's not Peter's point in 1 P 3:19-21. Rather, Peter points out that baptism's NOT a putting away (intrinsically) of sins ('filth of the flesh'). Instead it's an appeal of a good conscience, and for a good conscience, to God. In other words: baptism's a statement

"I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleaness....I will cleanse you. A new heart I will give you and a new spirit I will put within you....And I will put my spirit within you"
Ezekiel 36:25-27; like Ephesians 5:26 and Titus 3:5; doesn't refer to baptism or the water of baptism. Ezek 36:26-27 speaks of God's Spirit. Who is Christ. Who became a life-giving Spirit, as well as bodily rising, in His resurrection (1 Cor 15:45). Ezek 36:25's 'clean water' refers to Christ's precious blood, as in Zechariah 13:1. In that day there will be an opened fountain for the house of David and for the inhabitants of Jerusalem, for sin and for impurity. As Paul writes in Hebrews 9 "How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works." And as John writes in Revelation 1 "Him who loves us and has released us from our sins by His blood." And as Peter wrote in 1 P 1 "Redeemed with precious blood, as of a Lamb without blemish and without spot, the blood of Christ." It's a sad, antibiblical, and rank error to seek to limit Christ Jesus' forgiveness or blood to the water of baptism only. Thanx

[writer]

para 7 end: ...very public and notorious persecutor of Christ,'
needs no single quotation mark [']. Please ignore it

para 9: ...washes away sins in the sense of Acts 22:16
should read: ...may wash away sins in the sense of Acts 22:16...

Thanx

[athanasius]

Writer

You said

To the contrary: the Greek word for baptism's 'baptizo


My answer.

You haven’t really read what I said. I said the Greek word for “washing”in titus 3:5-7 is “Loutron” and according to Protestant Greek lexical sources like the Greek new testament dictionary from Strongs Concordance(Page 54), the definition given with for this “washing” is Baptism.

So I know of nobody Protestant or Catholic who agrees with you on this. Which becomes a problem for you. How can the other bible only christians read this and interpret it to mean baptism? Can’t the sole infallible rule of faith answer this for us?

So your simply wrong. Titus 3:5-7 does show us that it is referring to the baptismal bath of regeneration in the sacrament of baptism and does give us initial salvation.



You said

Christ never said, and never would say: 'Baptize me so that I can cleanse water.' This approaches, if it isn't already (on the part of this dear believer in Christ: Ambrose): rank superstition*

Again by not knowing history, you do yourself a diservice. Ambrose was using theologically poetic language. But Ambrose has a good point.

If in the Old testament you had holy water(Numbers 5:17), and in the old testament you saw that the Holy Spirit creating new life through the waters(Gen 1:2) then this would certainly foreshadow or typify the Holy Spirit giving us new life through the waters of baptism(titus 3:5-7, Acts:42).

If Jesus touches something for a sacramental purpose you can darn well believe that it become holy. It becomes holy because Christ sent the Holy Spirit to work through the waters of Baptism. This isn’t superstition at all its the grace of God.


You said

To the contrary: baptism does not remit sins. Only Christ's blood, as God's passover lamb, remits sins (John 1:29)

My answer

Yes you are right! The blood of Christ remits sins! Amen! But that blood is “applied” to you personally in the sacrament of Baptism and the Eucharist. So in fact Jesus applies that through water baptism and so yes all the early christians agreed as the council of Nicea says “We acknowledge one Baptism for he remission of sins” Amen! thats historic Christianity and truth!

You said

Baptism washes away sins in the sense of Acts 22:16

My answer

Great then we agree! However you contradicted yourself I hope you realize. I understand you have a differnt view but I really think your stretching it so would most bible only christians that I know. The scripture plainly says it does wash away sins ...ie a fullfillment of Ezekiel


You said

When I said I didn’t know where your getting your info from you said

“From the Bible*

My answer

Ok this is your problem. Your a sola scriptura man. Most Sola scriptura men of other denominations disagree with you on this. The Lutherans definitely do. You say that you are just going by the bible. They do too.

Who’s right? If you say you are, then by what authority? If you say Biblical authority and the spirit of God then they would say that they are right by the same authority. But you both disagree!

How do you know your right about this issue? Ahh I guess sola scriptura can’t help you. the tradition of the fathers and The Catholic church sure can through.

you said

Peter points out that baptism's NOT a putting away (intrinsically) of sins ('filth of the flesh'). Instead it's an appeal of a good conscience, and for a good conscience, to God. In other words: baptism's a statement*

My answer.

I do not see anything in that paragraph that remotely says what your saying. I think your stretching this to make it say what you want it to say. If your saved did Christ wash away your sins? Yes! If your baptised do you get your sins washed away(Acts 22:16, acts 2:38-42) Yes. Problem solved! You make things so complicated.


You said

Ezekiel 36:25-27; like Ephesians 5:26 and Titus 3:5; doesn't refer to baptism or the water of baptism. Ezek 36:26-27 speaks of God's Spirit. Who is Christ. Who became a life-giving Spirit, as well as bodily rising, in His resurrection (1 Cor 15:45).

Ezek 36:25's 'clean water' refers to Christ's precious blood, as in Zechariah 13:1. In that day there will be an opened fountain for the house of David and for the inhabitants of Jerusalem, for sin and for impurity. It's a sad, antibiblical, and rank error to seek to limit Jesus' forgiveness or blood to the water of baptism only. Thanx*


My answer

I think your blinding yourself to the clear context and wording of the scripture. Ezekiel says Water and and mentions sins being cleansed or washed away and the holy Spirit put into a person. Sound familiar(Acts 2:38-42, Acts 22:16, Titus 3:5-7 Eph 5:26-27). I have no problem with you making the connection with the blood of Christ.

As I said earlier Catholics would say amen to that. The blood of Christ does save. Christ just chooses to “apply” this blood and its salvation to us through the waters of baptism(1 Peter 3:21) initially.

This why we see both blood and water coming out of the heart of Jesus at the crucifixion. It was a sign to us theologically that he would save us through his blood and the waters of baptism.

[writer]

34 You haven’t really read what I said.
To contrary: i both red, and in my 32 responded to exactly, whut u sed

I said the Greek word for “washing”in titus 3:5-7 is “Loutron” and according to Protestant Greek lexical sources like the Greek new testament dictionary from Strongs Concordance(Page 54), the definition given with for this “washing” is Baptism.
Thanks for repeatin. In 32 i sed that baptism's 'baptizo.' Which Strong's definition to the contrary can't alter. The entire book of Titus, and Titus 3:5, mention nothing of baptism. Neither explicitly or implicitly

I know of nobody Protestant or Catholic who agrees with you on this.
I know of many Bible students who agree with me concerning Titus 3:5, and disagree with you. In any case: facts and truth aren't democracies. They're truth

Which becomes a problem for you.
To the contrary: what problem? Please don't attribute your problems, or made-up problems to me, dear A. U might wanna check with me, next time, if somethins a problem to me, before merely claiming it is

How can the other bible only christians read this and interpret it to mean baptism?
By "bible only" do you mean Bible-primarily? If you have a question about your friends' interpretation: you might want to ask them rather than ask me. Since they might be able to tell you how they interpret things the way they do better than i could. Since i don't know them. But i can try and answer you: i think the answer might be that they and i dis'gree

Can’t the sole infallible rule of faith answer this for us?
Titus 3:5's rather plain to me. If you or your friends disagree, or have a different interpretation: perhaps you could ask yourself why that is. If you or your pope seek to justify deviation from the Bible by claiming that it's confusing, then that appears rather transparent, self-serving, lame, and even deceit 2 me. No 'ffence

Titus 3:5-7 does show us that it is referring to the baptismal bath of regeneration in the sacrament of baptism and does give us initial salvation.
To contrary: Titus 3:5 (and whole book o' Titus) mention not baptism. Nor r "washing" or "regeneration" Biblical synonyms 4 it

[athanasius]

Writer you said

the entire book of Titus, and Titus 3:5, mention nothing of baptism. Either explicitly or implicitly*......Nor r "washing" or "regeneration" Biblical synonyms for "baptism"*

My answer

Tell me if you honestly do not think that these passages have a connection.

"I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleaness....I will cleanse you. A new heart I will give you and a new spirit I will put within you....And I will put my spirit within you"(Ezekiel 36:25-27)

Repent and be BAPTISED every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS; and YOU SHALL RECIEVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT"(ACTS 2:38)

"Rise and be BAPTIZED, and WASH away your SIN, calling on his name"(Acts 22:16)

"he SAVED us not becuase of our deeds done in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the WASHING OF REGENERATION and renewel in the HOLY SPIRIT"(titus 3:5-7)

Mr writer said that "washing" never refers to baptism in the new Testament, yet in (acts 22:16) thats exactly what the word "wash" refers to.

Do you see the connection between these pasages?
they all seem to have a common thread. Do you see how Ezekeil prophesy is fullfilled in Acts 2:38??? Both mention the concept of sins washed away by a sprinkling of water(ezekiel) or a baptism(Acts). Both mention the Holy Spirit decending upon them when this happens. Washing is mantioned to refer to baptism as we saw in acts 22:16. It connects with Titus 3:5-7.

HOw you cannot clearly see that this is both a implicit and explicit fullfillment of a old testament typology and prophecy is beyond me. espcecially when ALL the early Christian fathers agreed with this. these are the same Fathers you owe your knoweldge about the canon too. But then again you deny anything historical because it doesn't fit in with your vision of how the bible needs to be interpeted.

To the rest who read this. I need not fear. the truth is like a Lion, it can defend itself. So let the reader examine these passages that I have written in the past 4 or 5 post and read the fathers and decide for himself. Let those who have eyes to see and ears to hear hear and see the truth. Amen

[writer]

36 Tell me if you honestly do not think that these passages have a connection.
"I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleaness....I will cleanse you. A new heart I will give you and a new spirit I will put within you....And I will put my spirit within you"(Ezekiel 36:25-27)
Repent and be BAPTISED every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS; and YOU SHALL RECIEVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT"(ACTS 2:38)
"Rise and be BAPTIZED, and WASH away your SIN, calling on his name"(Acts 22:16)
"he SAVED us not becuase of our deeds done in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the WASHING OF REGENERATION and renewel in the HOLY SPIRIT"(titus 3:5-7)
Thank u for asking me, Athanasius.
The connexions i c r that "Spirit" [should be capitalized in Ezek 36:27] is mentioned in 3 of your 4 above. And is the one Spirit (Eph 4) who is both God, of God, Christ, of Christ, and is the Spirit of, and in, the Triune God in the New Testament and in the Bible.
I c that baptism iz mentioned in only 2 of them (Ac 2:38; 22:16).
I c that water iz mentioned in only the 1st. And that, given the context, the water in Ezek 36:25 differs from the water implied in Ac 2:38 and 22:16. I find that the water in Ezek 36:25 refers to the blood of Christ. I find that to be indicated by the fact that this water Precedes the Spirit in Ezek 36:25-27. And also indicated by verses such as Psalm 51:7; Zechariah 13:1; Hebrews 9:14; Revelation 1:5; 7:14; 22:14; 1 P 1:19. I find that the water implied in Ac 2:38 and 22:16 is merely the physical water of baptism. I find that water implied in Titus 3:5's word "washing" represents regeneration itself, as a phrase in appostition: washing of regeneration. Meaning there that that water, the washing of water, that washing, IS regeneration, interior "remodelling," in Titus 3:5. Not baptism directly, alone, or singly.
I c that forgiveness is mentioned only in Ac 2:38. But implied in Ezek 36:25 and Ac 22:16. I humbly discussed Ac 2:38's and 22:16's application to forgiveness particularly in my post 32, para 7.
Lastly i c that washing, cleansing, is literally in 3 of your 4. Christ's blood (only) cleanses from sins, Ezek 36:25. Calling on Jesus washes Saul from his particular sins, and his sins, in Ac 22:16, based on Christ's ransom with His blood. Regeneration in Titus 3:5 (of which rebirth in John 1 and 3 is only the commencement) washes faithful Christians dispositionally from the items Paul lists in Titus 3:3 "we also were once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving as slaves various lusts and pleasures, spending our lives in malice and envy, hateful, hating one another". Which makes Titus 3:5 not a matter of judicial redemption, before God. But akin most to Ezek 36:26-27 of the verses you kindly quote.
Thanks

34 that blood is “applied” to you personally in the sacrament of Baptism and the Eucharist.
If u r, or your religion, is suggesting that Christ's blood can be, or is, applied Only in baptism or at the Lord's Supper: that's a falsehood. Both in my experience, in the New Testament, and in other history

36 Mr writer said that "washing" never refers to baptism in the new Testament, yet in (acts 22:16) thats exactly what the word "wash" refers to.
To the contrary: my reading finds that washing in Ac 22:16 refers to "calling on His name" in 22:16

Do you see how Ezekeil prophesy is fullfilled in Acts 2:38?
Yes. "Cleanse" in Ezek 36:25 equals "forgiveness of sins" in Ac 2:38.
"My Spirit" in 36:27 equals "the Holy Spirit" in 2:38

34 If in the Old testament you had holy water(Numbers 5:17)...
Thas why i point out that much of Catholicism is a form of Judaizing. Ignoring the spiritual and the Spiritual for the physical

...and in the old testament you saw that the Holy Spirit creating new life through the waters(Gen 1:2)...
The "deep" and the "waters" in Genesis 1:2 typify directly, and primarily, death. From judgment. Baptism only 2ndarily

...then this would certainly foreshadow or typify the Holy Spirit giving us new life through the waters of baptism(titus 3:5-7, Acts:42).
The Holy Spirit gives His life, which is Christ's (who is God)'s eternal life, both in and out of, before and after, and during, bona fide, believers', baptism. The Holy Spirit is not powerless to give life before, or after, baptism in water. Indeed, in the New Testament (and Old) the most common use of water typologically is not to typify itself. But to symbolize the Holy Spirit Himself (Jn 4:14; 7:37-39; 1 Cor 12:13; Rv 22:1, 17)

If Jesus touches something for a sacramental purpose...
I might not be sure what on the planet u, or Catholicism, means, or thinks u mean, by "sacramental." But broadly-speaking, for purposes of responding now: there's no such concept in the apostles' teaching, the NT

we see both blood and water coming out of the heart of Jesus at the crucifixion. It was a sign to us theologically that he would save us through his blood and the waters of baptism.
To the contrary: water in John 19:34, although physical and literal, symbolizes the Holy Spirit. As often in the rest of his Gospel (John 7:37-39; 4:14)

36 these are the same Fathers you owe your knoweldge about the canon too.
To the contrary: the New Testament and apostles both preceded, and informed in many things, of so-called "Fathers"

you deny anything historical because it doesn't fit in with your vision of how the bible needs to be interpeted.
I deny that particular accusation of yours

let the reader examine these passages that I have written in the past 4 or 5 post and read the fathers and decide for himself. Let those who have eyes to see and ears to hear hear and see the truth. Amen
Amen

[writer]

hhmmm

[Baerly]

Friends, I am one who believes that (Titus 3:5) is refering to water baptism.

This verse has a connection with (Acts 2:38 ; 3:19 ; 22:16 ; 19:1-5).

When we read (Acts 8:5) we see Philip preaced Jesus to those in Samaria. Then we learn in (Acts 8:12) when thepeople believed the things Philip preached concerning the kingdom they were baptized. We see hear to preach Jesus is to preach baptism washes away sins. The Ethiopian eunich was rejoicing after baptism because he realized water baptism is when our Lords blood washes away our sins (Acts 8:39) (Eph.1:7) (Acts 22:16). We also learn in (Acts 22:16) that as Paul obeyed the instructions given to him by Ananius his sins were eashed away when he was baptized in water. (Rom.15:4) tells us to look and learn from the O.T. What do we learn? We learn that in (2Kings 5) Naamans leprosy was not washsed away tilll he dipped seven times in the Jordan river like the prophet told him to do. Water baptism in the new testament works in a similar fashion. When we Hear (Rom.10:14)-- Believe (John 8:24)-- Repent (Luke 13:3)--Confess (Rom.10:9,10)-- and are Baptized in water for the forgivness of our sins according to (Acts 2:38 ; 22:16)-- We then become Christians (Acts 11:26). We then must continue in the grace of the Lord (Titus 2:11,12) (1Cor.15:58). If we stop obeying the commandments of the Lord we lose our salvation according to (2Peter 2:20-22). in love Baerly

[Baerly]

Anytime anyone thinks a persons sins are washed away by literally calling out LORD LORD VERBALLY,they are in error. I do not mean to be ugly,I am just stating facts.Jesus said It is not enough to call me Lord,Lord,Jesus said DO MY WILL (Mt.7:21) (Luke 6:46) (Heb.5:8,9) (John 14:15,21).

If I say the kids are playING in the yard,that means they are doing it as I speak.

This is what happened to Saul (PAUL).As he obeyed Ananius' instructions to be baptized in water The blood of Jesus washed Sauls Sins away in the water according to (Col.2:12) & (Acts 22:16) & (Acts 2:38) & (Eph.1:7) & (Titus 3:5). It is a parrallel lesson to Naaman in (2Kings 5). Obeying the instructions of Ananius is what the bible calls CALLING ON THE NAME OF THE LORD (Acts 2:21). If we do something in the name of the Lord we are obeying our Lord according to his instructions (Col.3:17). Please understand this folks. in love Baerly