Muslims: Islam Does Not Allow Corporeal Punishent for Apostasy

[TashaN]

Originally Posted by tariqkhwaja

Okay ... thats enough ... we put this thread on a temporary hold.

I can see you do not have Quranic arguments to counter my view.

Why don't you make a new thread on Quran and Sunnah and put this Hadith as its first argument? We finish one debate and then we can come back to this one.

That's because i have discussed with many ahmadis before you and i just want to start with a common term with you. All what i wanted us to have is a productive discussion and knowing that i'll use both, the Quran and Sunnah, i'm telling you from the beginning instead of wasting our times then stop at the end in no where. Got my point bro.?

[TashaN]

So, if you agree that we use both, as muslims, the Quran and sunnah, then we can go a head. It's your call.

[tariqkhwaja]

We cannot go ahead with me accepting that the people who reported the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) were free from human error. The Quran, on the other hand, is free from human error. Which is why if the Quran and Sunnah contradict I cannot accept the Sunnah? And I am sure neither can you?

Now none of us claim direct Divine guidance to make the judgement whether the Sunnah does/does not contradict the Quran ... so the only viable solution to discuss this topic is to use the Quran first. You can use the Sunnah to support or explain a certain verse of the Quran but it should be an explanation and not a counter-argument to the Quran. This is very important. I am starting a new thread on Quran and Sunnah anyways.

[TashaN]

Then why are you using the hadith if you think it might be false? you just pick and choose?

You either have to accept the word of prophet Mohammed or not, because the writing of the hadith wasn't random, and by the grace of Allah, it has been there for us to guide us to be true Muslims. We accept the Sahih hadith for certain, and others with various degrees.

Does the Quran teach us how to pray? no!

Does the Quran teach us how much we should pay for Zakat? no!

You have to understand that the Quran is complete, but not compelete in the sense that EVERYTHING has to be there. We don't find either using cars or computers are ok to use or not in the Quran. Got wt i mean?

The sunnah will show us the how to practice the truth and guidance in the Quran in our DAILY life.

[TashaN]

Waiting for your reply.

[tariqkhwaja]

What reply ... we are already discussing this in "Sunnah and Quran Contradict". Here we discuss apostasy and its corporeal punishment (or lack thereof).

[TashaN]

We have to agree first about the hadith issue then we can come here, otherwise, it will be a counter productive thread.

[nawab]

Dear Tariq

If those people who reported within 100 years of the life of the Prophet were not free from error why cant the Qadiyanis be in error who were born centuries after the demise of the prophet who basically didnt saw anything and learned everything from the Muslisms of India. of course Haddith is one step lower than the Quran thats why we judge the Haddiths with the Quran and not vice versa

[tariqkhwaja]

Good question. Because Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was Divinely Guided and God told him that current mainstream Muslim interpretation after 1400 years is completely messed up. So one reason (albeit a secondary reason) he came was to correct all the several errors that Muslims today make.

Just look at the Opening post of this thread. So many evidences from the Quran about apostacy and still the Muslim Ulema say the punishment for apostacy is death. Don't turn your back on the verses of the Quran. Don't turn your back on simple reasoning and rationality. Turn your back on the ridiculous teachings of the Mullahs of today, the worst people on the face of the Earth.

They are like donkeys. They carry books like the Holy Quran on their backs but have no idea what the books mean.

[nawab]

so, what proof did the Quran gave about Mirza Ghulams prophethood, suppose if MIrza Ghulam was a true prophet why did God said in the Quran that Muhammad is the last, Did God made a mistake