Once saved? (Jesus, salvation, grace, doctrine, churches)

[Fish-Hunter]

Originally Posted by Starfish

I don't understand it either. I must continually work on my salvation. As soon as I stop, I start backsliding.

We call it "Enduring to the end".

Try the Bible version of your understanding.

Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose. Phil 2

[Scott C.]

A follow up to my last post...

Consider these two logical statements:

IF I truly accept Christ
THEN I am saved.
IF I am saved THEN
I will bring forth good works.
THEREFORE
If I do not bring forth good works THEN
I am not saved.

Compare/contrast the above with the following:

I am saved IF and ONLY IF I truly accept Christ AND bring forth good works
THEREFORE
If I have no good works THEN
I am not saved.

In either of the above positions, one is not saved who does not have good works. In the first case the good works are essential evidence of salvation, but not the cause of salvation. In the second case, the good works are part of the cause of salvation. When you look at it that way, the gap between the positions narrows.

I believe the LDS position is more of the second than the first. It would seem this is also the Catholic view (but I can't speak for Catholics). The first view seems to be Evangelical, or at least what some Evangelicals believe.

One last logical statement:

If I accept Christ THEN
I am saved.
If I am saved THEN
If I commit murder, fornication, beat my wife, lie, cheat, and steal, THEN
I am saved.

Some Evangelicals seem to believe this, but not most.

What do you think of my analysis?

[Fish-Hunter]

Originally Posted by Scott C.

A follow up to my last post...

Consider these two logical statements:

IF I truly accept Christ
THEN I am saved.
IF I am saved THEN
I will bring forth good works.
THEREFORE
If I do not bring forth good works THEN
I am not saved.

Compare/contrast the above with the following:

I am saved IF and ONLY IF I truly accept Christ AND bring forth good works
THEREFORE
If I have no good works THEN
I am not saved.

In either of the above positions, one is not saved who does not have good works. In the first case the good works are essential evidence of salvation, but not the cause of salvation. In the second case, the good works are part of the cause of salvation. When you look at it that way, the gap between the positions narrows.

I believe the LDS position is more of the second than the first. It would seem this is also the Catholic view (but I can't speak for Catholics). The first view seems to be Evangelical, or at least what some Evangelicals believe.

One last logical statement:

If I accept Christ THEN
I am saved.
If I am saved THEN
If I commit murder, fornication, beat my wife, lie, cheat, and steal, THEN
I am saved.

Some Evangelicals seem to believe this, but not most.

What do you think of my analysis?

I think modern day evangelical thought may not be biblical or historical. The sinner's prayer, altar call and accepting Jesus Christ into my heart are not Biblical ideas. This is my assessment and solution to the modern day evangelical thinking.

Historic Church Documents at Reformed.org

[Dunemeister]

I believe Scott C's analysis is about right. A biblical understanding seems to say that we are saved on the basis of our faith alone. I'm not saved because I've done this or that or because I haven't done this or that. I'm saved because I confess Jesus as Lord and believe in my heart that God raised him from the dead (Romans 10:9).

The question seems to be, "What if today, I fail to confess Jesus as Lord?" That is, what if my words or life do not affirm the Lordship of Jesus? What if I begin to doubt that God raised him from the dead? Am I still a saved person? Was the one-time act of confessing and believing enough to secure my place in heaven regardless of my life and faith afterward?

I think a biblical answer to that question is a big, fat no.

[Fish-Hunter]

Originally Posted by Dunemeister

I believe Scott C's analysis is about right. A biblical understanding seems to say that we are saved on the basis of our faith alone. I'm not saved because I've done this or that or because I haven't done this or that. I'm saved because I confess Jesus as Lord and believe in my heart that God raised him from the dead (Romans 10:9).

The question seems to be, "What if today, I fail to confess Jesus as Lord?" That is, what if my words or life do not affirm the Lordship of Jesus? What if I begin to doubt that God raised him from the dead? Am I still a saved person? Was the one-time act of confessing and believing enough to secure my place in heaven regardless of my life and faith afterward?

I think a biblical answer to that question is a big, fat no.

Well...this is the result of easy believism which cannot be supported in the scriptures. Someone may have done an altar call or sinner's prayer and never grow in affection for God. I think the Scriptures exhorts us to examine if we are in the faith, to tests ourselves. I've read books by John MacArthur and John Piper stating that the great mission field is the visible church. James chapter 2 is as important as the 13 Epistles of Paul. I think the real question is how does a saving faith look like over time? Do we grow in progressive affection for God, and does the world become less desirable to us over time?

[angellous_evangellous]

Wow, I'm glad to see the evangelical view under-represented.

[Fish-Hunter]

Originally Posted by angellous_evangellous

Wow, I'm glad to see the evangelical view under-represented.

Evangelical from the past, or the present?

Historic Church Documents at Reformed.org

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by Fish-Hunter

Evangelical from the past, or the present?

Historic Church Documents at Reformed.org

I do find the more traditional Reformed theology to be just as bad as modern "evangelicalism."

They both stem from pretty much the same errors.

[Fish-Hunter]

Originally Posted by angellous_evangellous

I do find the more traditional Reformed theology to be just as bad as modern "evangelicalism."

They both stem from pretty much the same errors.

I know you hate Calvinism...join the long list! But is it true according to the Scriptures alone? So if you reject Reformed Theology and modern day evangelism...what do you believe as a Christian? Do you consider yourself a progressive liberal Christian?