Once saved? (Jesus, salvation, grace, doctrine, churches)

[Mr. Peanut]

I'm neither "Arminian" nor "Calvinist", nor "Hyper-Calvinist", etc. I do believe in the Doctrine of the Eternal Security of Every Believer, or Assurance of every believer. I guess you could call me a "Calvarinian", I believe Christ paid for ALL my sins IN FULL, on Calvary and trust that his blood, his death on the cross was sufficient to have paid for ALL my sins. I believe what he said in John 5:24:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

I believe the many promises in the Bible that assure us of our salvation, telling us we are now fully and freely justified, have now received the atonement, are saved to the uttermost, that Jesus will never leave us, nor in no wise cast us out, that nothing can separate us from the love of God, nothing can pluck us out of his hand, and on and on the promises pertaining to salvation go. We are sealed unto the day of redemption, we are fully pardoned, we are kept not by our power, but by the power of God, etc. etc. 1 John tells us these things were written that we may KNOW that we HAVE (right now, not might have if...) eternal life (not temporary life), because we have believed (past tense) in Christ. This is the faith unto salvation, which God, who cannot lie has promised to all who have believed. Praise God forevermore.

[Fish-Hunter]

Originally Posted by Mr. Peanut

I'm neither "Arminian" nor "Calvinist", nor "Hyper-Calvinist", etc. I do believe in the Doctrine of the Eternal Security of Every Believer, or Assurance of every believer. I guess you could call me a "Calvarinian", I believe Christ paid for ALL my sins IN FULL, on Calvary and trust that his blood, his death on the cross was sufficient to have paid for ALL my sins. I believe what he said in John 5:24:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

I believe the many promises in the Bible that assure us of our salvation, telling us we are now fully and freely justified, have now received the atonement, are saved to the uttermost, that Jesus will never leave us, nor in no wise cast us out, that nothing can separate us from the love of God, nothing can pluck us out of his hand, and on and on the promises pertaining to salvation go. We are sealed unto the day of redemption, we are fully pardoned, we are kept not by our power, but by the power of God, etc. etc. 1 John tells us these things were written that we may KNOW that we HAVE (right now, not might have if...) eternal life (not temporary life), because we have believed (past tense) in Christ. This is the faith unto salvation, which God, who cannot lie has promised to all who have believed. Praise God forevermore.

Hi Mr. Peanut,

What a cool name... Mr. Peanut.

Question: What do we call a 4 point Calvinist?
Answer: An Arminian

I'm just having fun with you my brother in Christ. And thank you for sharing the truth in love. Nobody wants to be called an Arminian or a Pelagius. Actually, there is a better name for the apparent middle ground. It is called a semi-Pelagius position. When you study the issues, God is either sovereign or man is either sovereign in salvation. Therefore, a Calminiam is a semi-pelagius, and a more biblilcal Arminian than your typical cotemporary Arminan. I write these things to stimulate you to know our great God in greater depth, because what God has decreed and ordained will certainly come to pass for His own glory. Forget what I have to say, and search the scriptures for yourself and find out that God is completely sovereign...therefore you can trust Him. His promises are true and will come to pass. Hey Mr. Peanut, are you also *Paul*? I forgot to mention, you have one other choice, you can also be a closet Calvinist.



Hey Mr. Peanut, come out of the closet!

Acts 13:48:
When the Gentiles heard this (gospel of grace), they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.



Fish and peanuts for lunch!

[*Paul*]

Originally Posted by Fish-Hunter

Hi brother *Paul*,

I've been enjoying your biblical supported postings. It appears you are neither an Arminian Christian, nor a hyper-Calvinist. Therefore, do you fall into the biblical balance position known as Calvinism. Charles Spurgeon wrote that Calvinism is but a nickname for biblical Christianity.

Hello yourself brother.

I am aware of the Spurgeon quote, he is an author / preacher much loved by me but i'm not a Calvinist. I don't think a Calvinist can truly have eternal security because it is not easy to tell if you are truly one of the elect until the end when you have perservered. I hear that many of the Puritans had fear on their death bed as they looked back on their lives and realised that they had not performed as well as they could of. After all Calvin spoke of some whom God gives a degree of light and faith but not enough to save them, such people may live their lives thinking they are saved only to find that they are damned.

Anyways I think many of todays Calvinists don't follow true John Calvin calvinism but a more watered down version. (And I thank God for that)

Take infant baptism:
Book 4
Chapter 16 (institutes)
I trust I have made it apparent how feebly Servetus has supported his friends the Anabaptists.
32. No sound man, I presume, can now doubt how rashly the Church is disturbed by those who excite quarrels and disturbances because of pædobaptism. For it is of importance to observe what Satan means by all this craft—viz. to rob us of the singular blessing of confidence and spiritual joy, which is hence to be derived, and in so far to detract from the glory of the divine goodness. For how sweet is it to pious minds to be assured not only by word, but even by ocular demonstration, that they are so much in favour with their heavenly Father, that he interests himself in their prosperity! Here we may see how he acts towards us as a most provident parent, not ceasing to care for us even after our death, but consulting and providing for our children. Ought not our whole heart to be stirred up within us, as David’s was (Ps. 48:11), to bless his name for such a manifestation of goodness? Doubtless the design of Satan in assaulting pædobaptism with all his forces is to keep out of view, and gradually efface, that attestation of divine grace which the promise itself presents to our eyes. In this way, not on]y would men be impiously ungrateful for the mercy of God, but be less careful in training their children to piety. For it is no slight stimulus to us to bring them up in the fear of God, and the observance of his law, when we reflect, that from their birth they have been considered and acknowledged by him as his children. Wherefore, if we would not maliciously obscure the kindness of God, let us present to him our infants, to whom he has assigned a place among his friends and family, that is, the members of the Church.

If I were alive in Geneva in his day I would be in prison or worse for my beliefs. How about you?

[Fish-Hunter]

Originally Posted by *Paul*

Hello yourself brother.

I am aware of the Spurgeon quote, he is an author / preacher much loved by me but i'm not a Calvinist. I don't think a Calvinist can truly have eternal security because it is not easy to tell if you are truly one of the elect until the end when you have perservered. I hear that many of the Puritans had fear on their death bed as they looked back on their lives and realised that they had not performed as well as they could of. After all Calvin spoke of some whom God gives a degree of light and faith but not enough to save them, such people may live their lives thinking they are saved only to find that they are damned.

Anyways I think many of todays Calvinists don't follow true John Calvin calvinism but a more watered down version. (And I thank God for that)

Take infant baptism:
Book 4
Chapter 16 (institutes)
I trust I have made it apparent how feebly Servetus has supported his friends the Anabaptists.
32. No sound man, I presume, can now doubt how rashly the Church is disturbed by those who excite quarrels and disturbances because of pædobaptism. For it is of importance to observe what Satan means by all this craft—viz. to rob us of the singular blessing of confidence and spiritual joy, which is hence to be derived, and in so far to detract from the glory of the divine goodness. For how sweet is it to pious minds to be assured not only by word, but even by ocular demonstration, that they are so much in favour with their heavenly Father, that he interests himself in their prosperity! Here we may see how he acts towards us as a most provident parent, not ceasing to care for us even after our death, but consulting and providing for our children. Ought not our whole heart to be stirred up within us, as David’s was (Ps. 48:11), to bless his name for such a manifestation of goodness? Doubtless the design of Satan in assaulting pædobaptism with all his forces is to keep out of view, and gradually efface, that attestation of divine grace which the promise itself presents to our eyes. In this way, not on]y would men be impiously ungrateful for the mercy of God, but be less careful in training their children to piety. For it is no slight stimulus to us to bring them up in the fear of God, and the observance of his law, when we reflect, that from their birth they have been considered and acknowledged by him as his children. Wherefore, if we would not maliciously obscure the kindness of God, let us present to him our infants, to whom he has assigned a place among his friends and family, that is, the members of the Church.

If I were alive in Geneva in his day I would be in prison or worse for my beliefs. How about you?

Of course all true Christians agree that we were saved to the praise of His glorious grace, and to glorify God and enjoy Him forever. Do you know Mister Peanut?

I like John Piper's change of man's primary purpose from the Westminster Confession of Faith from glorify God and enjoy Him forever to glorify God by enjoying Him forever. Christian hedonism is quite true according to the Apostle Paul. What do you think about Piper's perspective on Christian hedonism?

If infant baptism is a problem, you can embrace the London Baptist Confession of 1689, the one embraced by Spurgeon and other Reformed Baptist.

[*Paul*]

Originally Posted by Fish-Hunter

Do you know Mister Peanut?

I am aware of his work

I like John Piper's change of man's primary purpose from the Westminster Confession of Faith from glorify God and enjoy Him forever to glorify God by enjoying Him forever. Christian hedonism is quite true according to the Apostle Paul. What do you think about Piper's perspective on Christian hedonism?

I've not taken any time to read his writings, I started to read one of his books about this subject but I couldn't take to it.

If infant baptism is a problem, you can embrace the London Baptist Confession of 1689, the one embraced by Spurgeon and other Reformed Baptist.

I can't say that i give any thought to old confessions of faith because they are not mine from my heart and that is the only thing that means anything to God. I liked an old anabaptist one I read and found that I was in a agreement with a majority of it but it was only a matter of historical interest for me.

Recommended reading on free grace:
John Wesley

[Ephramsdaughter]

Originally Posted by rheff78

Fellow christians, I ask this because I am curious and I don't want to start spouting off things I don't understand (God knows people do that with me all the time). For those that believe in being saved. I don't quite get it. Does that mean if you have been saved, you are saved for ever? I guess I'm asking, do you no longer have to repent for your sins because you are saved? I only ask because obviously Catholics don't believe in being saved. Just a little help, the concept is lost to me. Peace.

A person IS NOT saved forever. The following verses from the Holy Bible show this:

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." (Hebrews 6:4-6)

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries." (Hebrews 10:26-27)

"Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him." (Hebrews 10:38)

"For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them." (2Peter 2:20-21)

[*Paul*]

The devil's daring falsehood
J.C Ryle

I can imagine nothing so pleasant to men, as the
fallacious theory that we may live in sin--and yet
escape eternal perdition; that although we "are
slaves to many wicked desires and evil pleasures"
while we are here in this world, we shall somehow
or other, all get to heaven hereafter! Only tell the
young man who is "wasting his substance in riotous
living," that there is a heaven at last, even for those
who live and die in sin--and he is never likely to turn
from evil. What does it signify how he lives, if there
is no "future eternal punishment?" Why should he
repent and take up the cross--if he can get to
heaven at last without trouble?

Six thousand years ago, sin entered into the
world by the devil's daring falsehood, "You
shall not surely die!" (Genesis 3:4) At the end
of six thousand years, the great enemy of
mankind is still using his old weapon, and
trying to persuade men that they may live
and die in sin--and yet at some distant period
may be finally saved! Let us not be ignorant
of his devices. Let us walk steadily in the old
paths. Let us hold fast the old truth, and
believe that, as the happiness of the saved
is eternal--so also the misery of the lost is
eternal.

Unrepented sin is an eternal evil--and can
never cease to be sin; and He with whom
we have to do--is an eternal God!

"Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked.
A man reaps what he sows. The one who
sows to please his sinful nature, from that
nature will reap destruction; the one who
sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit
will reap eternal life." Galatians 6:7-8

http://www.gracegems.org/Grace_Gems.htm

[Fish-Hunter]

Can a Christian lose his or her Salvation?
One major debate within Christian circles is the question of whether or not a Christian can lose his or her salvation. Arminians argue that true believers can sin so much that they lose their faith and perish. Some Christians respond by arguing that once a person professes faith in Jesus, he is eternally secure in his salvation and—even if he commits complete apostasy (“falls away”) and vocally rejects Jesus Christ—will still go to heaven, for “once saved, always saved.” In light of the biblical doctrine of predestination, how should we understand the security we have under God’s care? There have been three main approaches to the question:

1. Classic Arminianism
• One must persevere in faith to be saved.
• True believers can lose their faith.
• Those dying without faith in Christ are condemned.
“The believer who loses his faith is damned.”

2. Antinomianism
• One need not persevere in faith to be saved.
• True believers can lose their faith.
• Those who lose their faith are saved, since they once believed.
“The believer who loses his faith is saved.”

3. Classic Calvinism
• One must persevere in faith to be saved.
• True believers cannot lose their faith, since it’s God’s gift.
• Those dying without faith in Christ are condemned.
• Those who “lose” their faith never had it to begin with.
• God will preserve true believers and they will be saved.

“The ‘believer’ who loses his faith never really had it—or at least it wasn’t in Jesus.”

Proponents of the first two approaches quote biblical references, but each must strain to explain away the other group's biblical data. How can an Arminian read Romans 8, then tell true believers that they may screw up and go to hell??? Then again, how can Charles Stanley read Hebrews 6 and 10 and tell unbelievers who once professed faith not to worry, that they will be saved??? Any true biblical teaching must “fit” with ALL the biblical data, without pitting one text against another and without having to explain away a single “jot or tittle” of God's inerrant Word. I believe that only the classical Calvinist model takes into account all of the biblical data.

Arminians are right when they say the Bible teaches that only those who persevere will be saved, and they’re right in accusing Antinomians of easy-believism and cheap grace. Antinomians (they wouldn’t use the term) are right in telling committed believers that they are secure in Christ and “once saved, always saved.” But both of these views are wrong is assuming that a true believer can lose his faith and fall away from Christ. Faith is “a gift of God—not by works, lest any man boast.” Paul was confident that, since Christ had begun a good work in believers, He would continue that work until completion (Phil. 1). John said that those who fell away were never really true Christians, since true believers don't leave the faith (1 John 2:19).

Scripture teaches that believers must persevere until the end, but also that believers will persevere until the end by God's grace. As the Westminster Assembly concluded, Christians might temporarily yield to Satan's temptations, even to excess, but like Peter when he denied Christ three times, God will still restore and preserve the faith of the Christian, a faith which God gave in the first place! Peter went on to be chief among the apostles! Two biblical principles must be held side-by-side:

1. You Must Persevere until the End: God's Requirement of His People
God does not merely command us to begin to believe for a time, and then fall away. He requires us to continue to believe until the end, living lives of repentance and covenant faithfulness. Granted, He does not ask for a perfect faith, but He does ask for a real faith, one that produces real, lasting change.
• Colossians 1:21-23
• 1 John 1:5-10; 3:3-6
• Hebrews 10:26-31
• Hebrews 12:1

2. You Will Persevere Until the End: God's Preservation of His People
We will persevere because God preserves us. God will keep us from falling—not one will be lost of all those who belong to the Son. True believers are not able to leave Christ, for Christ is at work within them.

• John 6:38-40
• John 10:28-29
• Romans 8:28-39
• Philippians 1:4-6
• Philippians 2:12-13
• 1 John 2:19

This first set of texts cannot be used to refute the second (Arminianism); nor can the second set of texts be used to refute the first (cheap grace). The point that makes the two compatible is the biblical teaching that faith (while commanded of everyone) is a gift from God to His elect. If faith is simply a human action of a free will, then it can be lost. But if saving faith is God's gift, then it cannot be lost. Can professing Christians fall away? Yes, and they will perish. Can true Christians fall away? No, for they are kept by the invincible power of God in Christ. The Bible teaches us that professing Christians who leave the faith were never truly believers (1 John 2:19; and notice the qualification even in Hebrews 10:39).

“They, whom God hath accepted in his Beloved, effectually called, and sanctified by his Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.” —Westminster Confession of Faith 17.1, drafted by the Westminster Assembly at the request of the British Parliament 1643-47

One major debate within Christian circles is the question of whether or not a Christian can lose his or her salvation