Christians:Is The Trinity Truly Biblical(A Separate Thread) (Jesus, priest)

[uss_bigd]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

The words "essence" and "substance" as used in the Creeds to describe God come from Greek philosophy. At the time the Nicene Creed was written, most of the educated Christians were schooled in Greek thought and were merely to trying to understand the nature of God in terms that they were familiar with. The Bible clearly states that Jesus and His Father are "one" but it doesn't say they are "one essence." In John 17, when Christ offers His great intercessory prayer to His Father, He asks that His followers may all be "one, even as we are one." Unless it was His desire that we all be absorbed into the essence of the Trinity, which doesn't seem very likely to me, He was referring to a oneness or unity of will and purpose. He and His Father are definitely "one" but not "one essence."

[Michel07]

Gen 1 , 26
Then God said: Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.

Isaiah 6, 3

Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord of Hosts!.

Isaiah 48, 16
Come near to me and hear this!
Not from the beginning did I speak it in secret;
" Now the Lord, God has sent me,
and his spirit.

Matthew 28, 19

Go ,therefore, and make disciples
of all nations, baptizing them in the name
of the Father,and of the Son, and of the
holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all
that I have commanded you. And behold,
I am with you always until the end of the age.

1 John 5, 7

So, there are three that testify,





I have posted these scriptures elsewhere to indicate a case can be made for the Trinity as being Biblical. More examples could probably be found but may not be necessary. I think the biggest problem arises when people can't quite understand how it can be and therefore it must be false rather than accepting the possibility of their own lack of understanding. We christians take much by faith but if we didn't or could not, we would have to rely on our own logic to accept anything which is exactly how many approach the question of the Holy Trinity. We can't answer some pretty basic questions about the ' raison d'etre' of most of existence except by faith and now we are supposed to be able to understand the complete nature of the architect of existence? I think not. ( please do not paraphrase me in that last sentence haha).
I believe God has put so much before us in the world and universe to discover as a gift to us. But nothing greater than Himself and if we can admit we don't know everything about creation we should be able to admit we don't know everything about Creator.

[Katzpur]

Hello, Michel.

Originally Posted by Michel07

Gen 1 , 26
Then God said: Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.

But traditional Christianity does not even believe that God has an image, does it?

Isaiah 6, 3

Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord of Hosts!

I'm confused as to how this doctrine refers to a triune God.

Isaiah 48, 16
Come near to me and hear this!
Not from the beginning did I speak it in secret;
" Now the Lord, God has sent me,
and his spirit.

Matthew 28, 19

Go ,therefore, and make disciples
of all nations, baptizing them in the name
of the Father,and of the Son, and of the
holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all
that I have commanded you. And behold,
I am with you always until the end of the age.

1 John 5, 7

So, there are three that testify,

I can see how these scriptures all testify as to a Godhead comprised of three distinct beings. But where do they describe God as "one essence"?

[Michel07]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Hello, Michel.

But traditional Christianity does not even believe that God has an image, does it?

I'm confused as to how this doctrine refers to a triune God.

I can see how these scriptures all testify as to a Godhead comprised of three distinct beings. But where do they describe God as "one essence"?

That I believe is referred to throughout scripture as there is One God.I don't like to get simplistic because it isn't but as I mentioned elsewhere St. Patrick taught of the Trinity by holding up a three leaf clover and saying It's something like that. The three leaves are part of one stem.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Michel07

That I believe is referred to throughout scripture as there is One God.I don't like to get simplistic because it isn't but as I mentioned elsewhere St. Patrick taught of the Trinity by holding up a three leaf clover and saying It's something like that. The three leaves are part of one stem.

Thanks, Michel. I can see St. Patrick's analogy as describing the Godhead of the Bible. To me, the problem lies with the word "essence." What do you see God's essence as being?

[Michel07]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Thanks, Michel. I can see St. Patrick's analogy as describing the Godhead of the Bible. To me, the problem lies with the word "essence." What do you see God's essence as being?

God's essence I think is precisely that, His 'Being'.

[Starfish]

The trinity satisfies the concept that there is ONE god, but it doesn't explain all the many scriptures that indicate that The Father and Christ are separate beings. Any 6-year-old would assume that Jesus wasn't praying to himself and might laugh at anyone who thought he was.
I've always wondered why the trinitarians focus on a lesser amount of verses that sound like The Father, Christ, and the Holy Ghost are one, and ignore the greater amount of scriptures that sound otherwise.
Especially when there's a logical explanation that satisfies ALL the scriptures.

They are separate beings, yet ONE in purpose and mission. If you hear from one, you've heard from them all. One represents the others. They are totally united; just as I am united with my husband. Yet we, and they, are separate beings. Totally logical, yet rejected by mainstream Christianity. Why is that?

[Michel07]

Originally Posted by Starfish

The trinity satisfies the concept that there is ONE god, but it doesn't explain all the many scriptures that indicate that The Father and Christ are separate beings. Any 6-year-old would assume that Jesus wasn't praying to himself and might laugh at anyone who thought he was.
I've always wondered why the trinitarians focus on a lesser amount of verses that sound like The Father, Christ, and the Holy Ghost are one, and ignore the greater amount of scriptures that sound otherwise.
Especially when there's a logical explanation that satisfies ALL the scriptures.

They are separate beings, yet ONE in purpose and mission. If you hear from one, you've heard from them all. One represents the others. They are totally united; just as I am united with my husband. Yet we, and they, are separate beings. Totally logical, yet rejected by mainstream Christianity. Why is that?

We should not forget that Jesus also said " If you have seen me you have seen the Father."
Maybe I don't need to fully understand. I still believe in the mysteries of God, Lord knows I sure don't understand everything that goes on in this world.

[uss_bigd]

Originally Posted by Michel07

That I believe is referred to throughout scripture as there is One God.

I am sorry my friend but what you are saying is not true.

Psalms 82:1
"God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods'

I do not think this verse is subject to interpretation, there is more than one God!

Originally Posted by Michel07

I don't like to get simplistic because it isn't but as I mentioned elsewhere St. Patrick taught of the Trinity by holding up a three leaf clover and saying It's something like that. The three leaves are part of one stem.

St. Patrick? is he biblical? if he coined the trinity then it just authenticates that the trinity is not biblical. coz their is no St. Patrick in the bible.

be carefull not to fall in this verse

Colossians 2:22
Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?