Christians:Is The Trinity Truly Biblical(A Separate Thread) (Jesus, priest)

[Scott1]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Mason

If Jesus isn't God then the Bible, Judaism and Christianity are just a mythological falsies. A good majority of the Bible is the prophetic fore tellings and prophetic manifestation of Jesus's deity.

Ummmm.... and you're a non-Trinitarian.... or you just ignored that part of my question?

[Jeremy Mason]

Originally Posted by Scott1

Ummmm.... and you're a non-Trinitarian.... or you just ignored that part of my question?

Sorry scott1, I was just answering the question because you quoted me. Trinitarians, to the best of my knowledge, believe that Jesus is equal to the Father, but Scripture points out that Jesus is a subordinate of the Father. i believe this to be true to an extent. Never-the-less, I'm curious for a Trinitarian's answer to your question.

[Scott1]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Mason

Sorry scott1, I was just answering the question because you quoted me. Trinitarians, to the best of my knowledge, believe that Jesus is equal to the Father, but Scripture points out that Jesus is a subordinate of the Father. i believe this to be true to an extent. Never-the-less, I'm curious for a Trinitarian's answer to your question.

OK... just wanted to make sure... got me confused for a bit (not a difficult thing to do).... and I'm also curious.... a non-divine Jesus sounds like a nut to me and I can't wait to hear some replies.

Peace

[sojourner]

Originally Posted by Dirty Penguin

I see what you mean......

Each postal worker is separate from that which they serve. They all work together for one unified purpose but are separate none the less.

I agree with certain parts of your analogy but it of itself helps both of our cases. You can view them as one "Post Office" and I have no problem separating the worker from the collective. I have no problem understanding that the gun toting mad man bent on shooting up the joint does not represent the views of "the post office"....Or the lazy postal worker who stock piles years worth of main in his house because he wants to lighten his load. So although there is a post office not all of its workers are equal.

Your understanding is fine, except that you're forgetting one important piece of the puzzle. The Post Office is a human institution, and therefore fallible. (Lazy and crazy workers who do not represent the ethos of the Post Office). God is Divine, and therefore infallible. (There is no evidence that either Jesus or the Holy Spirit are either lazy or crazy. and they both do represent the ethos of God). Even though they are separate persons, and may be identified as such, they are also fully of the Being of God and identifiable as such.

[Dirty Penguin]

Originally Posted by sojourner

Your understanding is fine, except that you're forgetting one important piece of the puzzle. The Post Office is a human institution, and therefore fallible. (Lazy and crazy workers who do not represent the ethos of the Post Office). God is Divine, and therefore infallible. (There is no evidence that either Jesus or the Holy Spirit are either lazy or crazy. and they both do represent the ethos of God). Even though they are separate persons, and may be identified as such, they are also fully of the Being of God and identifiable as such.

I may not always agree with the interpretations but I do respect your position.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Scott1

OK... just wanted to make sure... got me confused for a bit (not a difficult thing to do).... and I'm also curious.... a non-divine Jesus sounds like a nut to me and I can't wait to hear some replies.

The Father could be greater than the Son but still have a divine Son. I believe Christ to be subordinate to His Father. He is divine because of His relationship with His Father. When I use the word "subordinate," I am not referring to the Son as an inferior being, but as holding a subordinate position in the relationship. As an example, a colonel holds an inferior position to a general, but is not an inferior being. To most people's way of thinking, an ant, however, is an inferior being to a human. The Son is equal to His Father in terms of His divine attributes, but acknowledges the Father as being greater than He in the same way that most sons look up to their fathers.

[Scott1]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

The Father could be greater than the Son but still have a divine Son. I believe Christ to be subordinate to His Father.

Well... we've been through this before my friend... I don't find any evidence for the concept of "multiple dimensions" of divinity.... and Jesus being "divine-light"/subordinate (IMO) destroys something that is essential to the Christian faith.

He is divine because of His relationship with His Father. When I use the word "subordinate," I am not referring to the Son as an inferior being, but as holding a subordinate position in the relationship. As an example, a colonel holds an inferior position to a general, but is not an inferior being.

Yes.... I do understand your thinking, but you know that the Christian faith has tought this as an error since early in the development of the Church.
"Because it does not divide the divine unity, the real distinction of the persons from one another resides solely in the relationships which relate them to one another: "In the relational names of the persons the Father is related to the Son, the Son to the Father, and the Holy Spirit to both. While they are called three persons in view of their relations, we believe in one nature or substance."
Council of Toledo XI (675)

To most people's way of thinking, an ant, however, is an inferior being to a human. The Son is equal to His Father in terms of His divine attributes, but acknowledges the Father as being greater than He in the same way that most sons look up to their fathers.

The problem is (as it was during the early church) once you start down the slippery slope of subordination it is not too far a leap for other false teaching to creep in: that Jesus was not divine at all.... that Jesus was not human at all.... the he was human but "adopted" by divinity etc. etc. The only teaching that could prevent such errors was a forceful proclamation that announced the the most fundamental and essential teaching in the "hierarchy of the truths of faith":
We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the "consubstantial Trinity".
Council of Constantinople II (553)

Hope you have been well...
Scott

[uss_bigd]

Originally Posted by Scott1

We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the "consubstantial Trinity".
Council of Constantinople II (553)

Scott

The question of this thread is "is the trinity biblical"

The Trinity accoring to the book " faith of our fathers" authored by Catholic bishops stated 3 co-equal beings.

as Katspur argued, which i can biblically support, Jesus is a subordinate to the father but still holds a divine status.

We should not insert extra biblical references such as the council of constantinpole becuse the question is " is the trinity biblical"