Do differences in practices of faith mean we follow the same Jesus Christ? (reject, gospel)

[doppelgänger]

Originally Posted by sojourner

It is the revelation of the Church ... which is the Body of Christ. Since I am part of that Body, the use of the word "our" is legitimate, when speaking to other members of the Body.

No, at best it's a manifestation of some aspects of the revelation to some who are in the body of Christ. The revelation of the Church is not from the words of men nor from the authority of social institutions to choose books and dogmas. It is exclusively from the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit. That one might recognize the voice of God in some of the words chosen by men is quite predictable, but those words are not the revelation that binds the body of Christ together as one. Indeed, they tend to do the opposite - lending themselves to egotistical divisiveness and spellcasting.

[Scuba Pete]

Too many have tried to replace the Holy Spirit with the clergy in the church. Jesus gave us the Spirit to be our COUNSELOR and to open up God's will to us.

As the church collectively listens to the Spirit and DOES what it tells us to, we naturally grow closer together.

[sojourner]

Originally Posted by doppelgänger

No, at best it's a manifestation of some aspects of the revelation to some who are in the body of Christ. The revelation of the Church is not from the words of men nor from the authority of social institutions to choose books and dogmas. It is exclusively from the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit. That one might recognize the voice of God in some of the words chosen by men is quite predictable, but those words are not the revelation that binds the body of Christ together as one. Indeed, they tend to do the opposite - lending themselves to egotistical divisiveness and spellcasting.

No, but the revelation to the Church comes through the words of scripture, and through the authority granted to the Church by Christ to carry on in his name.

It is not the words that bind. But the words point us to the revelation that does.

[sojourner]

Originally Posted by Scuba Pete

Too many have tried to replace the Holy Spirit with the clergy in the church. Jesus gave us the Spirit to be our COUNSELOR and to open up God's will to us.

As the church collectively listens to the Spirit and DOES what it tells us to, we naturally grow closer together.

When (and why) did this become a clergy issue? The clergy are not at issue here. the Church has always had spiritual leaders. Even Jesus was a rabbi...

[doppelgänger]

Originally Posted by sojourner

the revelation to the Church comes through the words of scripture, and through the authority granted to the Church by Christ to carry on in his name.

You already have to have the revelation from the Spirit to get anything out of "scripture" (else you don't know what you are reading). The words of men and the authority of their institutions is far less than a substitute for the Holy Spirit. Exegesis cannot bring one into the Mystery because the Mystery does not - and indeed cannot - dwell in the words of men.

[sojourner]

Originally Posted by doppelgänger

You already have to have the revelation from the Spirit to get anything out of "scripture" (else you don't know what you are reading). The words of men and the authority of their institutions is far less than a substitute for the Holy Spirit. Exegesis cannot bring one into the Mystery because the Mystery does not - and indeed cannot - dwell in the words of men.

The words point us to, or clarify in our understanding, those mysteries. The spiritual work of the Body of Christ (which is carried on by authority of Christ) does not seek to substitute the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is inseparably abiding in the Church (which is the people of God). Since the real power comes when we abide in community, it is the Church -- the community of the faithful -- that is the revelation of the Spirit -- not a substitute for it.

[doppelgänger]

Originally Posted by sojourner

The words point us to, or clarify in our understanding, those mysteries.

One has to know what the Spirit sounds like to hear the Spirit through the noise of human words. Rather, human words obscure the Spirit, drown out the quiet voice by which the Spirit speaks, washing away love and human connection in the bluster and ego of word casting.

Originally Posted by sojourner

The spiritual work of the Body of Christ (which is carried on by authority of Christ) does not seek to substitute the Holy Spirit.

I agree with everything but the parenthetical, the inclusion of which turns your statement into an oxymoron.

Originally Posted by sojourner

Since the real power comes when we abide in community, it is the Church -- the community of the faithful -- that is the revelation of the Spirit -- not a substitute for it.

I know the Spirit by its fruit. And no human social institution, not even one among the thousands who call themselves "the Church" by virtue of their proclaimed authority to speak for God, bears the fruits of the Spirit.

[Scuba Pete]