Christians: Where do you draw the line? (Jesus, Creator, Moses)

[Starfish]

Originally Posted by Captain Civic

That's what bugs me about the church. Because you're non-trinitarian (among other things), people say you're not a real Christian. But you believe in the deity and authority of Christ. That's all that should matter, right?

[IIChr7:14]

Originally Posted by Dunemeister

As for the Father talking to Jesus at creation, it is well to point out that there was no Jesus then. I think my previous post said all I have to say about how to understand that passage. If you disagree with me, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Before anything else, based on your belief when did Jesus started to exist?

[IIChr7:14]

Originally Posted by Dunemeister

I'm not contradicting myself. You are correct that there is more than one way for the Father and the Son to be "one." Jesus may have, in this case, meditating on his oneness of purpose with the Father and praying for his church to enjoy the same. In fact, I think that's probably the best reading here. But that idea is perfectly compatible with the idea that the Father and the Son are ALSO one in essence or substance. I use Matthew 28:19 among other passages to argue for that.

Can you explain further Matthew 28:19

[Jeremy Mason]

This may shed some light:
(John 8:57) "You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"
(John 8:58) "I tell you the true," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am"
Jesus is saying that existed before Abraham.

[Starfish]

Originally Posted by IIChr7:14

Can you explain further Matthew 28:19

The main reason for missionary work. And baptism is essential. Clear as a bell.

[IIChr7:14]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Mason

This may shed some light:
(John 8:57) "You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"
(John 8:58) "I tell you the true," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am"
Jesus is saying that existed before Abraham.

Thank you, so Jesus existed before Abraham.

My follow up question,

So if Jesus existed before Abraham, when did he started existing before the creation of the heavens and earth or after the heaven and earth have been created?

Originally Posted by Duneimeister

As for the Father talking to Jesus at creation, it is well to point out that there was no Jesus then. I think my previous post said all I have to say about how to understand that passage. If you disagree with me, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Do you agree with what Duneimeister said, that there was no Jesus then, when God created the heavens and the earth?

[uss_bigd]

Originally Posted by IIChr7:14

Thank you, so Jesus existed before Abraham.

My follow up question,

So if Jesus existed before Abraham, when did he started existing before the creation of the heavens and earth or after the heaven and earth have been created?



Do you agree with what Duneimeister said, that there was no Jesus then, when God created the heavens and the earth?

no, he said in genesis, LET US create man, he cant explain why ... besides

Hebrews 5:5-10


5That is how it was with Christ. He became a high priest, but not just because he wanted the honor of being one. It was God who told him,
"You are my Son, because today
I have become your Father!"
In another place, God says,
"You are a priest forever just like Melchizedek." [a] 7God had the power to save Jesus from death. And while Jesus was on earth, he begged God with loud crying and tears to save him. He truly worshiped God, and God listened to his prayers. Jesus is God's own Son, but still he had to suffer before he could learn what it really means to obey God. 9Suffering made Jesus perfect, and now he can save forever all who obey him. This is because God chose him to be a high priest like Melchizedek.


Was Jesus doing a MONOLOGUE? i don't think so..... Jesus and God are two seperate beings ....

[IIChr7:14]

Originally Posted by Dunemeister

In fact, I think that's probably the best reading here. But that idea is perfectly compatible with the idea that the Father and the Son are ALSO one in essence or substance. I use Matthew 28:19 among other passages to argue for that.

What exactly do you mean by "the Father and the Son are also in one essence or substance",and why quote Matthew 28:19 to argue with that?

[Jeremy Mason]

If Jesus is God and I believe he is here some info about Jesus' deity.

The Deity of Jesus Christ

[Jeremy Mason]

Originally Posted by IIChr7:14

Thank you, so Jesus existed before Abraham.

My follow up question,

So if Jesus existed before Abraham, when did he started existing before the creation of the heavens and earth or after the heaven and earth have been created?



Do you agree with what Duneimeister said, that there was no Jesus then, when God created the heavens and the earth?

If Jesus was was before Abraham and he received all authority in heaven and earth then I have no problem with him being a co-creator with the Father and the Holy Spirit. Another thing to point out is in the NIV there to two spellings of LORD/ Lord in the OT. One refers to the Father and the other refers to Jesus.