Christians: Where do you draw the line? (Jesus, Creator, Moses)

[3.14]

a christian is a someone who calls himself that, unless clear rules dictate that that name is offlimits to that person

a person with multiple personalities called christian can also be considered christians even though he never heard of that religion

[Scuba Pete]

Interesting. It seems that maqhtai means "learner". It has nothing to do with discipline that i can see.

[ayani]

Khale, also see John 14:6-21. i was reading this the other day, and was kind of reading it like for the first time.

and truly, if we believe in what the NT is saying, Jesus *did* raise the dead, heal the sick, grant seeing to the blind, and through His signs and wonders opened hearts to faith and grace. if we trust His promises, we will follow Him, and follow His commandments. it's one thing to say "yes, these are nice teachings" and another to recognize the authority and truth in the One who gives the teachings, and make the decision to be His disciple.

yes, it's exclusive in that way, and that "only one way" belief did bug me for a long time. yet if we love God and are seeking God, we will love and follow the One God sent...

[sojourner]

Originally Posted by Scuba Pete

Interesting. It seems that maqhtai means "learner". It has nothing to do with discipline that i can see.

Yet, all learning involves methodology, does it not? The spiritual disciplines are the methodology for maqhtai. Even Jesus took the disciples to synagogue, and to the temple. Even the proto-Church continued to meet in synagogue, and then adjourned to a home to share the meal. These are disciplines, that the community of the faithful practiced together, are they not?

[Scuba Pete]

Originally Posted by sojourner

Yet, all learning involves methodology, does it not?

I disagree. Hit your thumb with a hammer. I bet you won't be doing that again anytime soon.

Originally Posted by sojourner

The spiritual disciplines are the methodology for maqhtai.

Is there a scriptural reference for this? It seemed that the majority of Jesus' methodology involved showing love to others.

John 21:15When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon son of John, do you truly love me more than these?"
"Yes, Lord," he said, "you know that I love you."
Jesus said, "Feed my lambs." 16Again Jesus said, "Simon son of John, do you truly love me?"
He answered, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you."
Jesus said, "Take care of my sheep."
17 The third time he said to him, "Simon son of John, do you love me?"
Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, "Do you love me?" He said, "Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you."
Jesus said, "Feed my sheep. 18 I tell you the truth, when you were younger you dressed yourself and went where you wanted; but when you are old you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go." 19Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God. Then he said to him, "Follow me!" NIV

Originally Posted by sojourner

Even Jesus took the disciples to synagogue,

Yeah... Now THAT was fun! My Lord was pissed!!!


Matthew 21:12 Jesus entered the temple area and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. 13 "It is written," he said to them, " 'My house will be called a house of prayer,' but you are making it a 'den of robbers.' " NIV

[sojourner]

Originally Posted by Scuba Pete

I disagree. Hit your thumb with a hammer. I bet you won't be doing that again anytime soon. Is there a scriptural reference for this? It seemed that the majority of Jesus' methodology involved showing love to others.

John 21:15When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon son of John, do you truly love me more than these?"
"Yes, Lord," he said, "you know that I love you."
Jesus said, "Feed my lambs." 16Again Jesus said, "Simon son of John, do you truly love me?"
He answered, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you."
Jesus said, "Take care of my sheep."
17 The third time he said to him, "Simon son of John, do you love me?"
Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, "Do you love me?" He said, "Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you."
Jesus said, "Feed my sheep. 18 I tell you the truth, when you were younger you dressed yourself and went where you wanted; but when you are old you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go." 19Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God. Then he said to him, "Follow me!" NIV

Yeah... Now THAT was fun! My Lord was pissed!!!


Matthew 21:12 Jesus entered the temple area and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. 13 "It is written," he said to them, " 'My house will be called a house of prayer,' but you are making it a 'den of robbers.' " NIV

I'm glad you disagree. 'K. How do we learn? Does it just "come to us" in a dream? Or seep in by standing close to a book? Or do we receive psychic impressions from others? How do we learn stuff?

Why does there have to be a scriptural reference for everything? You seem to forget that I'm not a subscriber to sola scriptura. Women have PMS, too, but you won'd find that in the Bible anywhere. Jesus' praxis was caring for those who needed care. his impetus was love for God and neighbor. But I certainly think he had a methodology for teaching his disciples: "Do you know what I have done here? I have given you an example, that you, also, should do." The examples of 1) sharing about the Table, 2) identifying with the community by making a sign of having turned from sin, 3) entering into confession of the same -- these are all examples that we follow.

Why do you think God would be ******? It happened. Jesus took his disciples to synagogue. He even participated, as clergy, in their services. They were good Jews. That's what good Jews did. Why shoud God be ****** about that?

[Scuba Pete]

Originally Posted by sojourner

I'm glad you disagree. 'K. How do we learn? Does it just "come to us" in a dream? Or seep in by standing close to a book? Or do we receive psychic impressions from others? How do we learn stuff?

Reading the book of Hebrews should help. Just follow James' caveat to DO what it says.

Originally Posted by sojourner

Why does there have to be a scriptural reference for everything?

There doesn't. But you said this was revealed to the church through scripture. Please trot it out.

Originally Posted by sojourner

You seem to forget that I'm not a subscriber to sola scriptura.

Neither am I. I believe you have to have the Spirit as well.

Originally Posted by sojourner

Why do you think God would be ******? It happened. Jesus took his disciples to synagogue. He even participated, as clergy, in their services. They were good Jews. That's what good Jews did. Why shoud God be ****** about that?

You think he was HAPPY when he overturned those tables? Do you think he was singing "I'm Happy Today!"???

[sojourner]

Reading the book of Hebrews should help. Just follow James' caveat to DO what it says.

Hmm. Seems to me that reading would be the methodology here -- just as doing by example is the methodology of the Church for teaching its members, in Christ's stead.

you said this was revealed to the church through scripture. Please trot it out.

Again: Methodology. If you want to find God in the Bible -- read it, learn it, find out what it says, study it. if you want to find God in the Church, participate in the actions of the Church.

I believe you have to have the Spirit as well.

Of course. I have never said that one doesn't.

You think he was HAPPY when he overturned those tables? Do you think he was singing "I'm Happy Today!"???

You think that was the only time Jesus was in the temple???