Christians: Where do you draw the line? (Jesus, Creator, Moses)

[Jeremy Mason]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

You lost me, Jeremy. You just quoted ratiocinactive and then asked me if I said these things. I'm not sure what "things" you're talking about, but I haven't deleted any of my posts on this thead so if you can't find something I supposedly said, it's a safe bet I didn't say it.

Sorry for the confession. It was late and I was tired. I think the subject at hand was about the trinity and it looked like people were saying that you didn't believe in the deity of the Father ,Son and the Holy Spirit. I thought you did and was wonder why all the hub-bub.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Mason

Sorry for the confession. It was late and I was tired. I think the subject at hand was about the trinity and it looked like people were saying that you didn't believe in the deity of the Father ,Son and the Holy Spirit. I thought you did and was wonder why all the hub-bub.

Thanks for clarifying that. Yes, we do believe what you had assumed we do.

[uss_bigd]

Originally Posted by Dunemeister

1. Do that. He'll bear me out.
2. I am sticking to bible facts -- facts about how exactly texts appear in the bible.

How about including biblical meaning?

One of the significance Hebrews 5 has is that Paul was sending the message that priesthood is someone of whom God the father Chooses, that even Christ did not want to be the high priest by his own choice but because of the Father sent him. hence the authenticity of the verse

John 14:28
You have already heard me say that I am going and that I will also come back to you. If you really love me, you should be glad that I am going back to the Father, because he is greater than I am.

hence, can the father be greater than Christ if they were the same person anyway?



no! they are seperate and distinct person ... This is based on biblical meaning and biblical sense (such as the one above) which you cannot refute
if you will no longer reply, then Good, this will be Good for those who are searching for truth. this reply is for those that seek. to God be te glory!!!

[sojourner]

Originally Posted by uss_bigd

Christians are people who follow Christ's teachings in tHe bible, NOTHING ADDED ... NOTHING OMITTED.

So, those who use a different Biblical canon than you ascribe to are not Christians? Or you are not a Christian? By your definition, either you or the Orthodox are not Christian. What about those early Christians who did not have a Bible, since it did not, as yet, exist? Were they fake Christians? Maybe your definition is too narrow to be really useful in defining who is and is not a Christian.

[sojourner]

Originally Posted by uss_bigd

the deutero canocical books was added by the catholics. it was not suppose to be there. i am referring to the original bible with the new and old testaments. the closer it is tranlated from the original greek bible the better.

thank you for asking, and thank God for the opportunity.

The "original Greek Bible" is the LXX. It contains more books than the Protestant canon.
What about the OT, which was not written in Greek, but mostly in Hebrew? Should we translate it from the Greek, too?

[sojourner]

Originally Posted by Ratiocinative

For whatever reason, people seem to downplay the level of commitment required to be a true Christian. Perhaps it is because the predominantly Christian societies are all democratic, so very few Christians have to risk anything to call themselves Christians. In some countries, though, people are not so care-free about calling themselves Christians. In those countries people have to be prepared for the fact that they might be killed if they pronounce faith in Christ. Christ said in Luke 9:62, anyone who puts a hand to the plow and then looks back is not fit for the Kingdom of God. Just because us Christians who live in democratic societies are rarely forced to choose between having faith in Christ, doesn't mean that we aren't still called to be willing to make that choice.

Anyway, to the topic. Faith in Christ is the only thing that is need, but questions arise, such as what is faith? Or, especially when talking to Mormons, who is Christ? So I tried to be as specific as possible so there wouldn't be any loopholes. Off the top of my head I can't think of any situation that someone who fits all 5 of these things could be unsaved, but perhaps there could be a loophole somewhere. But anyway, these are the five things that I would say are absolute, core, fundamental requirements for being a Christian:

1. You must believe that there is only one God.
2. You must believe that forgiveness of sins is only possible because Jesus, who is God incarnate, died on the cross.
3. You must believe that faith in Christ alone is how we obtain said forgiveness, and not through our own actions.
4. You must be willing to do what God says even if you don't understand the reason why at the time.
5. Your faith in Christ must be more valuable to you than your own life.

If you do not fit, #1,2, or 3, then you are not saved because you do not know who God is, and if you do not fit #4 or 5 then you do not have the required faith to be saved.

2) What about those many of us who don't believe in the substitutionary atonement? Forgiveness, according the OT, is possible for Jews, without Jesus dying on the cross.
3) Sola fide is a Protestant concept, coined by Martin Luther. It has no basis in early Christian salvation theology. Does that mean that no Christian before Martin Luther was really a Christian?

Perhaps these are Protestant core beliefs, but they certainly are not applicable to the majority of Xy.

[sojourner]

Originally Posted by uss_bigd

What matters is we follow the bible.... we shouldn't choose what to beleive....

So...you're a "Biblian" and not a Christian? Christians follow Christ -- always have. The Bible is one tool of the Church that we use in order to do that.

[sojourner]

Originally Posted by uss_bigd

you are distortng english grammar sir .... so when Jesus said the church and i are one ... IN YOUR LOGIC ... if i am a member of the churh i am Jesus ... that is screwed....

Is the Church not the Body of Christ? Is the Church not comprised of individual believers? That's the core of the mystery of the faith: That since we are the Body of Christ, through that mystery we have become one with him.

[sojourner]

Jesus is God's own Son, but still he had to suffer before he could learn what it really means to obey God. 9Suffering made Jesus perfect, and now he can save forever all who obey him. This is because God chose him to be a high priest like Melchizedek.


Was Jesus doing a MONOLOGUE? i don't think so..... Jesus and God are two seperate beings ....

I really don't believe that suffering is part of God's plan for us. You really need to delve deeper into theodicy before making such statements.

Was Jesus doing a monologue? No. Jesus and the Father are clearly two distinct persons, but with one Being.