Did Judas do God's will? (Jesus, priests, ritual, the passion)

[Jeremy Mason]

Originally Posted by Heneni

A few things to consider:

How come, Judas did not change even when he was in the pesence of Jesus everyday?

What Judas did was considered to be betrayal. It implies that there was a certain confidence in him which he did not live up to.

Jesus was not blind to the condition of Judas's heart, so then why would he consider it as betrayal?

My best guess is that as free agents, we get to call the shots. God may know what our final decisions are going to be, but we must act first. If that were not the case, then free will would not exist. It would be like God writing a computer program that said, "God is great" over and over again. But in the end, God would realize it was not us really saying it. Love is a two way street and we as his creation are what gives him glory by our own choosing.

One day, I hope to find my wife. But she can only be my wife if she chooses to be so and that there is the essence of this give and take that fosters love.

Judas may have had good intentions for Jesus, but I heard, (maybe in this thread) that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Judas made his own bed and now he's sleeping in it.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by logician

The passion story was a made up story, Judas betraying the the suppsed Jesus was I guess a needed element in that story.

Originally Posted by crystalonyx

None of the disciples existed, just like Jesus, just a story invented by bishops of the early literalist church to create a real Jesus to gain believers.

Fine, you guys think it was just a story, we get it. So when someone posts a thread asking whether Dumbledore really intended for Harry to die in the end, you guys feel compelled to jump in and point out to everyone that it was a "made up story", right?

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by rheff78

We all have freewill, including Judas, but without him betraying Jesus to the HIgh Priests then Jesus wouldn't have died for our sins. I guess my question is, was Judas doing God's will? Was he born for that specific reason? Keep in mind, I understand we all have freewill and he could have chose not to turn on Jesus. But, without his actions, the crucifixtion wouldn't have taken place. Just a thought.

I asked my junior high religion teacher that same question. I couldn't understand how Judas could be condemned to hell for all eternity for doing the thing that was necessary to save all of us. And my religion teacher just told me that I didn't have enough faith, kinda suggesting in front of the whole rest of the class that I was going to hell. That scared me too much to pursue the questioning, but it was the beginning of the end in terms of me believing what she taught us.

Then, when I saw Jesus Christ Superstar, and saw at the end when Judas descended onto the stage from above dressed in white, I knew I wasn't the only one.

I no longer believe in substitutionary atonement now, so the point is moot for me. But I do agree this poses a dilemma if you do.

[Heneni]

Judas excercised his free will to follow Jesus, to become his disciple, he wasnt forced to do such. Jesus choose Judas to be a disciple because Judas would follow him, but for the wrong reasons.

Judas was chosen to be a disciple to show that you can be in the presence of God dialy and still have iniquity in you. Like Satan who was in the presence of god daily but then iniquity was found in him.

God created all his being with the ability to turn against him if they so wish, to demonstrate that his kingdom is built on love, love for Him, and not power, the fear of him.

Judas was a nasty person inside. He did not change even though he was in the holy presence of Jesus every single day. The reason for this was that Judas' heart was not in love with God but in love with money. And you cant serve both even though it might look like you serve christ, you could be serving yourself.

Judas was a perfect example of how god can use evil to bring about good.

Satan knew that the crucifixtion of Jesus would mean the end of him, so he did not enter Judas to help him get Jesus crucified, he entered him to stop him from doing things that will result in the crucifiction of Jesus. Judas from the intent and motives of his own heart, wanted money, but that same thing would result in the crucifiction of Jesus, and satan didnt want that.

So I believe Satan entered Judas to stop him from being the agent of Satans own demise. Judas had to be possessed by satan so that satan could attempt to override the will of Judas.

But the evil in Judas's heart was enough to do what he did in the end, and satan could not stop it. Satan 'helped' Judas commit suicide. It should have looked to the authorities that Judas now felt that he had done the wrong thing to betray Jesus and to think twice about crucifying Jesus. But what he felt was guilt over going against the wishes of his own master. When Judas returned the money, inspired by satan do do so, it backfired and they said they didnt care about that now...so the next step was to go and throw Judas of a 'building' to try and make a greater point, but that didnt work either.

So Satan made his bed in Judas' heart, and he now had to lie in it

Love
Heneni

[rheff78]

But, maybe he's not in hell. Maybe he's in pergatory hoping one day to get out. Just a thought.

[Heneni]

I guess we all have to ask ourselves if we would have acted differently. So many christians serve money not god.

And it is my opinion that those who serve a god that like a genie brings them all the wealth they name claim and frame, is actually batting for the others side. Satan happily providing such wealth in order to make you think you serve god.

Heneni

[Jeremy Mason]

Originally Posted by rheff78

But, maybe he's not in hell. Maybe he's in pergatory hoping one day to get out. Just a thought.

I doubt there is a purgatory.

[rheff78]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Mason

I doubt there is a purgatory.

ahhh, pergatory is crowded with doubters.

[Jeremy Mason]

Originally Posted by rheff78

ahhh, pergatory is crowded with doubters.

Perhaps you can help me. I tried looking in the NIVEC and could not find Purgatory anywhere. Seeings your Catholic, it might be in the four or so book not in the NIV. Can you reference this for me please?