Did Judas do God's will? (Jesus, priests, ritual, the passion) - Page 4

Jeremy Mason · #31 03-11-2008, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratiocinative

Thought it doesn't specifically say this in the text, we can guess that Judas, like many others, thought that Jesus was going to free the Israelites from the rule of the Roman Empire. He likely thought that having Jesus arrested would causing him to start fighting against the Romans. This would also explain why Judas felt so terrible after hearing Jesus was condemned to death. If he wanted Jesus to be arrested so that he would be killed, then he would not have been so upset when he was ordered to be crucified, so he obviously had some other plan in mind when betrayed Jesus.

And no, Judas was not required for Jesus to be crucified. The pharisees made many attempts to arrest Jesus before, so once Jesus' time had come he could have just gone out in public and gotten arrested. Judas merely made his own choice to betray Jesus because he, like many other characters in the Bible, wanted to try and "help" God fulfill his promises.

That's and interesting view of the Judas story. Tell me, did Judas have the best intentions when he sold money? Was Jesus wrong when he said one of the twelve was the Devil? I don't think Judas was a good guy. I'm not trying to be mean and am aware of the Gospel of Judas. It's just that Jesus knew Judas's heart was bad, it clearly states that in the Bible, and I have to correct people when they incorrectly cut Judas slack.

Ratiocinative · #32 03-11-2008, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy Mason

That's and interesting view of the Judas story. Tell me, did Judas have the best intentions when he sold money? Was Jesus wrong when he said one of the twelve was the Devil? I don't think Judas was a good guy. I'm not trying to be mean and am aware of the Gospel of Judas. It's just that Jesus knew Judas's heart was bad, it clearly states that in the Bible, and I have to correct people when they incorrectly cut Judas slack.

Well it would only be speculation to say whether or not Judas thought what he was doing was right, though I would guess that he did since he later killed himself once he heard Jesus was to be killed, but the fact still remains that what he did was wrong. Judas was trying to accomplish want he wanted, not want God wanted. A similar situation would be when Jesus told his disciples he would die and then Peter told him that would never happen. Peter was thinking about what he wanted, rather than what God wanted. Judas' motives were selfish, so it was likely that his heart was selfish also, which is certainly a characteristic of the devil.

Jeremy Mason · #33 03-11-2008, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratiocinative

Well it would only be speculation to say whether or not Judas thought what he was doing was right, though I would guess that he did since he later killed himself once he heard Jesus was to be killed, but the fact still remains that what he did was wrong. Judas was trying to accomplish want he wanted, not want God wanted. A similar situation would be when Jesus told his disciples he would die and then Peter told him that would never happen. Peter was thinking about what he wanted, rather than what God wanted. Judas' motives were selfish, so it was likely that his heart was selfish also, which is certainly a characteristic of the devil.

Sounds good to to me. Thanks for clearing that up.

sojourner · #34 03-20-2008, 08:34 PM

Quote:

I am striving to become free from the desire to sin (temptation).

betraying a friend, hanging someone on a cross -- these are not within the will of God. This is the kind of convoluted thinking that arises from a belief that Jesus had to suffer in order to effect salvation.

lockyfan · #35 03-29-2008, 04:28 AM

Matthew 26:24
"True, the Son of man is going away, just as it is written concerning him, but woe to that man through whom the Son of man is betrayed! It would have been finer for him if that man had not been born."
this person that Jesus is talking about is Judas

damaq · #36 04-26-2008, 03:22 PM

i am not catholic i'm a shia ismali muslim, but i attend a catholic school and DO believe that Judas did carry out God's will. he knew he was going to be betrayed and if 'each person has a purpose in life' i think Judas' purpose was to betray Jesus for the good of mankind.
q

Mister Emu · #37 04-27-2008, 01:48 AM

I don't believe that Jesus had to die by crucifixtion for our salvation to be effected, so no I do not believe that Judas was doing the will of God...

Charity · #38 04-27-2008, 11:24 AM

Jesus predicted His own betrayal and stated that it was to fulfill the scriptures.
He told the disciples so that when it happened they would believe "I am He"

I am "the Light of the world" I am "the alpha the omega" I am "that I am"

I believe he knew when the betrayal would take place, by whom, and how. After all He is an all knowing God

Jeremy Mason · #39 05-03-2008, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charity

Jesus predicted His own betrayal and stated that it was to fulfill the scriptures.
He told the disciples so that when it happened they would believe "I am He"

I am "the Light of the world" I am "the alpha the omega" I am "that I am"

I believe he knew when the betrayal would take place, by whom, and how. After all He is an all knowing God

What are your feelings concerning Judas? Was he good or bad?

Heneni · #40 05-03-2008, 02:39 AM

A few things to consider:

How come, Judas did not change even when he was in the pesence of Jesus everyday?

What Judas did was considered to be betrayal. It implies that there was a certain confidence in him which he did not live up to.

Jesus was not blind to the condition of Judas's heart, so then why would he consider it as betrayal?