Did Judas do God's will? (Jesus, priests, ritual, the passion)

[Captain Civic]

Originally Posted by 9-10ths_Penguin

the primary difference is the motive.

I personally think that's the part that matters.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by rheff78

This might belong in a different spot. But I've been struggling with this one for a while. As you can see, I'm Catholic, but I'm still not sure on this one. We all have freewill, including Judas, but without him betraying Jesus to the HIgh Priests then Jesus wouldn't have died for our sins. I guess my question is, was Judas doing God's will? Was he born for that specific reason? Keep in mind, I understand we all have freewill and he could have chose not to turn on Jesus. But, without his actions, the crucifixtion wouldn't have taken place. Just a thought.

In my opinion, each of us -- including Judas -- has free will. I don't believe for a minute that he was doing God's will, but that God knew that he was the kind of person who would be willing to sell out on the Savior. Judas could have been born at any time or place. The fact that he was born in the Holy Land and met up with Jesus Christ was, in my opinion, neither a mere coincidence nor was it in violation of Judas's free will.

[Jeremy Mason]

(John 6:70) states that Jesus picked the Twelve but that one was the devil: this being Judas. (John 12:6) states that Judas had been taking money from the money bag for his own purposes. It's apparent to me that Judas, by freewill, was acting against God's will well before he betrayed Jesus. Just as good builds on good, evil builds on evil.

[mudge991]

Hmm Then explain Acts 1:13

1:13 And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James.

Then reference it with Mark 3:14-18

3:14 And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach, 3:15 And to have power to heal sicknesses, and to cast out devils:
3:16 And Simon he surnamed Peter; 3:17 And James the son of Zebedee, and John the brother of James; and he surnamed them Boanerges, which is, The sons of thunder: 3:18 And Andrew, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus, and Simon the Canaanite

Mark says that Thaddeus was one of the twelve apostles, but his name is not included in the lists given in Luke (6:14-16) or Acts (1:13), which list Judas the brother of James instead.

Maybe Judas was just a guy in the wrong place at the wrong time?

[crystalonyx]

None of the disciples existed, just like Jesus, just a story invented by bishops of the early literalist church to create a real Jesus to gain believers.

[rheff78]

ALright, this isn't a question for people that don't believe in Jesus or Judas. If you don't believe, great. But kindly back out of the debate if you don't have anything productive to add.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by rheff78

ALright, this isn't a question for people that don't believe in Jesus or Judas. If you don't believe, great. But kindly back out of the debate if you don't have anything productive to add.

Thank you. I don't know what these bozos think they are contributing by their off-topic comments. You might want to request that a moderator move this debate to the "Same Faith Debates," rheff. You could ask that it be restricted to "Catholics Only," "Christians Only," or "Abrahamic Faiths Only."

[logician]

Originally Posted by rheff78

ALright, this isn't a question for people that don't believe in Jesus or Judas. If you don't believe, great. But kindly back out of the debate if you don't have anything productive to add.

If you want same-faith debates, put it it same-faith debates, otherwise you have no argument.

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by crystalonyx

None of the disciples existed, just like Jesus, just a story invented by bishops of the early literalist church to create a real Jesus to gain believers.

Perhaps, but that would be a topic for another thread.

[rheff78]

Originally Posted by Willamena

Perhaps, but that would be a topic for another thread.

ALright, do I just ask for this to be moved to same-faith debates? I guess I'm asking then. For Abrahamic Religions only then?