A Question for fellow Christians. (Jesus, Moses, Earth, gospel)

[ChristineES]

On two or three Christian forums I post at, we are having numerous debates about how one is saved.

I believe that each person alive is called and it is up to each person to answer the call.

The conflicting belief is that only people God has chosen to be called are called and anyone who doesn't become saved is because God didn't choose them to be saved.

So I am wondering what the Christians at the RF believe. Do you believe anyone can be saved or only those chosen by God to be saved?

[Ringer]

From what I can tell, the bible teaches both concepts. Don't ask me how to explain but I don't think there's such a clear cut answer. For instance, the bible makes it clear that God's invisible qualities are made known to man so that they are without excuse. We all have the opportunity to answer to the call of God because it is something mankind has a desire for.

On the other hand, I believe the bible also teaches that God hardens the heart of some so that they will not be receptive to the gospel message. These people choose darkness over the light for whatever reason.

I understand many people have issues with this because it doesn't seem fair. Why would God create someone to purposely not accept the gift of salvation and enter into a relationship with Jesus? I think it's one of those things I'll be asking in heaven. The verses that comes to mind is in Romans 9.

Not only that, but Rebekah's children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God's purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls—she was told, "The older will serve the younger."Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses,
"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' "Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use? What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? As he says in Hosea:
"I will call them 'my people' who are not my people;
and I will call her 'my loved one' who is not my loved one,"and,
"It will happen that in the very place where it was said to them,
'You are not my people,'
they will be called 'sons of the living God.' "

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by ChristineES

I believe that each person alive is called and it is up to each person to answer the call.

The conflicting belief is that only people God has chosen to be called are called and anyone who doesn't become saved is because God didn't choose them to be saved.

So I am wondering what the Christians at the RF believe. Do you believe anyone can be saved or only those chosen by God to be saved?

I believe as you do, Christine. What kind of a loving Father in Heaven would condemn someone to Hell for no reason at all, particularly someone who actually loves Him and wants to be His child?

Luke 11:10-13 says, "For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?"

Honestly, I can't see how anyone could possibly believe otherwise, but I've run into plenty of people who do, so what do I know?

[Francine]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

I believe as you do, Christine. What kind of a loving Father in Heaven would condemn someone to tell for no reason at all, particularly someone who actually loves Him and wants to be His child?

Don't ask and don't tell.

The concept of grace seems to get short shrift these days. I like to call it slack. For those who believe in Christ's death and resurrection, God gives us slack. For free.

[sojourner]

I believe God will save every person.

[madhatter85]

Originally Posted by sojourner

I believe God will save every person.

then why be in a religion? why not go do whatever you want since ur gunna be saved anyways? if you wanna kill go kill? if you want to cheat on your wife? do it. sure it doesn;t matter cause i'm saved anwyays.

"eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we die"

[sojourner]

Originally Posted by madhatter85

then why be in a religion? why not go do whatever you want since ur gunna be saved anyways? if you wanna kill go kill? if you want to cheat on your wife? do it. sure it doesn;t matter cause i'm saved anwyays.

"eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we die"

The point of espousing a religion isn't "to be saved." Salvation isn't a reward. Salvation is an act of God's mercy. The point of espousing a religion is to help one with life's journey, within an understanding of a relationship between God and humanity.

"Whatever I want" is to act out my faith in a manner that is congruent with Christ's teachings. Murder and adultery are not congruent. Therefore, I do not wish to engage in such. It does matter, because it would seriously undermine my relationship with God.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Francine

Don't ask and don't tell.

Okay! I fixed it!