A Question for fellow Christians. (Jesus, Moses, Earth, gospel)

[stephenw]

Originally Posted by doppelgänger

"God does not exist. He is being itself beyond essence and existence. Therefore to argue that God exists is to deny him."

"Thus the question of the existence of God can neither be asked nor answered. If asked, it is a question about that which by it's very nature is above existence, and therefore the answer - whether negative or affirmative - implicitly denies the nature of God. It is as atheistic to affirm the existence of God as it is to deny it. God is being itself, not a being." - Systematic Theology, Volume I.

Though it's important to keep in mind I think that "God is being itself, not a being" is also just a metaphor.

Thanks, I must trot off and make the fires and stuff.
I knew my brain would end up hurting before I shut the computer!.
Thanks for the brain food. Cheers.

[tomspug]

Originally Posted by doppelgänger

I think we are both in the same ballpark. You make a fine Buddhist, StephenW.

I don't know about "I am" being an attribute of "God" though any more than any other attribute we project onto "God." This is what the theologian Paul Tillich was getting at, I think, when he wrote about "God" as the "ground of being." Giving "God" attributes - even the attribute of "existence" - is to deny "God."

"God does not exist. He is being itself beyond essence and existence. Therefore to argue that God exists is to deny him."

"Thus the question of the existence of God can neither be asked nor answered. If asked, it is a question about that which by it's very nature is above existence, and therefore the answer - whether negative or affirmative - implicitly denies the nature of God. It is as atheistic to affirm the existence of God as it is to deny it. God is being itself, not a being." - Systematic Theology, Volume I.

Though it's important to keep in mind I think that "God is being itself, not a being" is also just a metaphor.

I don't agree with the systematic approach.

It goes from point A and returns to point A, that God is above existence, therefore God is above the definition of existence. That's not true logic.

If God exists, then he is NOT above existence. To say that he is above ONE existence maybe, but I'm not sure you can go that far either.

It is better to say that if God is 'infinite' then he is not defined by a 'finite' set of parameters. For instance, if we are in 3 dimensions and God is in more, than 3 dimensions does not satisfactorily define God. We possibly can determine aspects of God by his interactions with our 3 dimensions, as a sphere that passes through a line, or even a dot, but it is droll and absolutely incomplete definition.

This is what is called 'revelation'. We say that God chooses to 'reveal' himself in certain ways, but it is not in a way that 'limits' Him, but in a way that only 'partially' defines Him, only one aspect of his much larger being.

But to say that God is INFINITE, means that the comprehension of Him is 'limitless', not necessarily impossible, but improbable. This is not the same as "to argue that God exists is to deny him".

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by tomspug

That's not true logic.

Is your god a product of logic?

[tomspug]

Is logic a product of man? Nope. Man is a product of God. God IS logic! What do you think the definition of 'just God' is?

[Wandered Off]

Originally Posted by tomspug

God IS logic!

So when holy texts or people tell us things about God that aren't logical, can we assume they're wrong?

[doppelgänger]

Originally Posted by tomspug

It goes from point A and returns to point A, that God is above existence, therefore God is above the definition of existence. That's not true logic.

Sure it is. It's just a "strange loop."

Is the following logical proof valid:

Every Z has Y
x does not have Y
Therefore, x is not a Z

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by tomspug

Is logic a product of man? Nope. Man is a product of God. God IS logic! What do you think the definition of 'just God' is?

Holy rusted spikes, batman!

What a confused mind we have here.

*slaps head*