A Question for fellow Christians. (Jesus, Moses, Earth, gospel)

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by uss_bigd

all you need to do is to repent, be baptized in the church of the bible, and have fellowship with the apostles through following what is written nothingadded, nothign ommited.

Well, that's a bit problematic since there are currently more than 30,000 churches all claiming to be the "Church of the Bible."

[uss_bigd]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Well, that's a bit problematic since there are currently more than 30,000 churches all claiming to be the "Church of the Bible."

Good question ...


Let us narrow them down then...

1. by name: see verses below

1. Acts 20:28
   Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
2. 1 Corinthians 1:2
   Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:
3. 1 Corinthians 10:32
   Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
   1 Corinthians 10:31-33 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 10 (Whole Chapter)
4. 1 Corinthians 11:22
   What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? what shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.
5. 1 Corinthians 15:9
   For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
6. 2 Corinthians 1:1
   Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:
7. Galatians 1:13
   For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
8. 1 Timothy 3:5
   (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

THESE MEANS CATHOLICS, PROTESTANTS, ET. AL. ARE ELIMINATED....

2. BY TEACHING

2 Corinthians 9:7
Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

THEY DO NOT COLLECT TIGHTS, BECAUSE 10% IS NOT SOMETHING DECIDED IN ONES HEART.... THEY DO NOT COLLECT ANYTHING MANDATORY.

3 John 1:7
When they left to tell others about the Lord, they decided not to accept help from anyone who wasn't a follower

THEY DID COLLECT MONEY FROM NON FOLLOWERS, MEANING NON MEMBERS OF THEIR CHURCH, BETTER YET NEVER COLLECTED FROM CASINOS, DRUGDEALERS AND THE LIKE.

James 1:27
Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

THEY TAKE CARE OF THE WEAK, POOR ETC.

i hope this is narrow enough, seek and you shall find!

[Ratiocinative]

Originally Posted by uss_bigd

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost

II. ok ... be baptized where????

You fall into the fallacious study style that many people at my church do. They say they're studying salvation, but then they go study baptism. Of course if you look at only verses that mention both salvation and baptism, then you'll come to the conclusion that baptism is necessary for salvation, but if you look at all the verses that mention salvation whether or not they mention baptism then you will quickly see that salvation is through faith in Christ alone:

Mark 16:16-17 (KJV) [16] He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. [17] And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Luke 8:11-15 (KJV) [11] Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. [12] Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. [13] They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. [14] And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection. [15] But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

John 1:10-13 (KJV) [10] He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. [11] He came unto his own, and his own received him not. [12] But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: [13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 3:14-18 (KJV) [14] And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: [15] That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. [16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. [17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. [18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:36 (KJV) He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 5:24 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 11:25-26 (KJV) [25] Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: [26] And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Acts 2:21 (KJV) And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 11:13-18 (KJV) [13] And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; [14] Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. [15] And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. [16] Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. [17] Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? [18] When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Acts 13:47-48 (KJV) [47] For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. [48] And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Acts 16:27-34 (KJV) [27] And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled. [28] But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here. [29] Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, [30] And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? [31] And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. [32] And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. [33] And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. [34] And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

Romans 1:15-17 (KJV) [15] So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. [16] For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. [17] For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Romans 3:21-22 (KJV) [21] But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; [22] Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV) For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Ephesians 2:8 (KJV) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Also, studying the verses that mention what causes people to be unsaved, baptism is not among them:

Mark 16:15-20 (KJV) [15] And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. [16] He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. [17] And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; [18] They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. [19] So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. [20] And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

Luke 8:11-13 (KJV) [11] Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. [12] Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. [13] They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

John 8:23-25 (KJV) [23] And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. [24] I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. [25] Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.

John 16:8-12 (KJV) [8] And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: [9] Of sin, because they believe not on me; [10] Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; [11] Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. [12] I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

This is only a fraction of the verses that mention salvation, but the character limit is 10,000 so these are all I could fit.

[uss_bigd]

Originally Posted by Ratiocinative

You fall into the fallacious study style that many people at my church do. They say they're studying salvation, but then they go study baptism. Of course if you look at only verses that mention both salvation and baptism, then you'll come to the conclusion that baptism is necessary for salvation, but if you look at all the verses that mention salvation whether or not they mention baptism then you will quickly see that salvation is through faith in Christ alone:
Also, studying the verses that mention what causes people to be unsaved, baptism is not among them:
This is only a fraction of the verses that mention salvation, but the character limit is 10,000 so these are all I could fit.

Thank you for your input.

It is clear, their is a church that is one with christ. that their is a pure and undefiled religion.

• we are basing in the same gospel sir, it is not debatable that Jesus must make sense, why would he put up a church, tell the apostles to baptized them and paul calling early christians as members of the church of God if the church is not needed?

besides look at

James 2:14
[ Faith Without Works Is Dead ] What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?

and
John 8:31

Jesus told the people who had faith in him, "If you keep on obeying what I have said, you truly are my disciples.

faith is not enough you have to continue to obey!


i do not intend to offend anyone, i am just reading what is written....

[Starfish]

Originally Posted by uss_bigd

Thank you for your input.

It is clear, their is a church that is one with christ. that their is a pure and undefiled religion.

• we are basing in the same gospel sir, it is not debatable that Jesus must make sense, why would he put up a church, tell the apostles to baptized them and paul calling early christians as members of the church of God if the church is not needed?

besides look at

James 2:14
[ Faith Without Works Is Dead ] What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?

and
John 8:31

Jesus told the people who had faith in him, "If you keep on obeying what I have said, you truly are my disciples.

faith is not enough you have to continue to obey!


i do not intend to offend anyone, i am just reading what is written....

I so agree with you! Works are important, but not everything. We develop faith, do our best, and God's grace makes up the difference.

[Ratiocinative]

Originally Posted by uss_bigd

Thank you for your input.

It is clear, their is a church that is one with christ. that their is a pure and undefiled religion.

• we are basing in the same gospel sir, it is not debatable that Jesus must make sense, why would he put up a church, tell the apostles to baptized them and paul calling early christians as members of the church of God if the church is not needed?

besides look at

James 2:14
[ Faith Without Works Is Dead ] What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?

and
John 8:31

Jesus told the people who had faith in him, "If you keep on obeying what I have said, you truly are my disciples.

faith is not enough you have to continue to obey!


i do not intend to offend anyone, i am just reading what is written....

Faith, by definition, means that you do continue to obey. James is merely emphasizing the fact that faith and good deeds are not independent of each other because of some people claiming that they are. Faith causes you to want to do what is right so if you aren't doing what's right then it's obvious you don't have faith. That is the purpose of his example in verse 16, if you say you have faith but your actions don't show it, then you obviously don't really have faith. But it isn't your actions that save you, it's faith just like scripture says.

[ChristineES]

I am one of those weird Christians who believes that the belief in Jesus and following of His commands are more important than which denomination you belong to. I used to think it was normal to think that until I joined certain Christian forums (at least 12 different ones).
I finally decided on the RF because most of Christians felt the same as I do (among other reasons, that is).

Works are important- but what are works? Is praying considered a work? Is loving your neighbor a work? Or do you think there is more to it than that.

[uss_bigd]

Originally Posted by Ratiocinative

Faith, by definition, means that you do continue to obey. James is merely emphasizing the fact that faith and good deeds are not independent of each other because of some people claiming that they are. Faith causes you to want to do what is right so if you aren't doing what's right then it's obvious you don't have faith. That is the purpose of his example in verse 16, if you say you have faith but your actions don't show it, then you obviously don't really have faith. But it isn't your actions that save you, it's faith just like scripture says.

faith, by definition is looking forward for things to come. you can have faith, beleive in something yet not do something about it. you can say you call Jesus name, yet not live like a christian.

but still the point remains. according to the scriptures, according to verses i pasted above. THERE IS A CHURCH WITH A SPECIFIC NAME, AND BAPTISM IS A REQUIREMENT. THEY DO NOT COLLECT 10% OF YOUR INCOME AND THEY DO NOT COLLECT FROM PEOPLE THAT ARE NOT MEMBERS OF THEIR CHURCH(YET).