A Question for fellow Christians. (Jesus, Moses, Earth, gospel)

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Ratiocinative

You just said you agreed with me a couple pages back. If you never make an effort to learn about God, then you can't complain about never hearing about Christ. If you seek after God then he will make sure you find him, but if you decide not to then you can't complain if you never learn about him. The Bible is very clear that Christ is the only way to heaven.

Sure you are, what other conclusion can you come to with your thinking? If a person ignores God their entire life and makes no effort to learn about him, then dies, they're going to hell because they don't have faith in Christ. Yet, you say that they are necessarily going to hell, so they must be getting a freebie somewhere according to you.

There isn't anyone who doesn't.

How is that vague? Faith in Christ = saved, no faith in Christ = not saved.

I give up.

[UltraViolet]

Originally Posted by Ratiocinative

We already went over this. Never hearing about Christ and never having a chance to hear about Christ are two different things. You can't ignore God your entire life and then expect to get a freebie because you did so. Everyone has a tons of chances to learn about Christ, and it isn't anyones fault but your own if you refuse to do so. There is no example of anyone in scripture being saved without Christ, and tons of verses stating that Christ is the only way to be saved.

A freebie?!
And what constitutes "ignoring God"?

[apologistndenton]

Originally Posted by ChristineES

On two or three Christian forums I post at, we are having numerous debates about how one is saved.

I believe that each person alive is called and it is up to each person to answer the call.

The conflicting belief is that only people God has chosen to be called are called and anyone who doesn't become saved is because God didn't choose them to be saved.

So I am wondering what the Christians at the RF believe. Do you believe anyone can be saved or only those chosen by God to be saved?

In the Bible we are expressly told that God's elect are "chosen to salvation"

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by apologistndenton

In the Bible we are expressly told that God's elect are "chosen to salvation"

And I guess He just created the rest of us to be His eternal firewood. Sounds like a truly loving Father in Heaven.

[Jeremy Mason]

Biblically speaking, God knows the hearts of men and women before they choose to dismiss him. It's not that he wants eternal firewood, he loves us all very deeply--more than any of us know now. He show that on the cross. The point is even though he already knows who's going to make or not still doesn't mean he's going to roll up the carpet before we have a chance at freewill.

[Sola'lor]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Mason

Biblically speaking, God knows the hearts of men and women before they choose to dismiss him. It's not that he wants eternal firewood, he loves us all very deeply--more than any of us know now. He show that on the cross. The point is even though he already knows who's going to make or not still doesn't mean he's going to roll up the carpet before we have a chance at freewill.

GREAT POST!!!

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Mason

Biblically speaking, God knows the hearts of men and women before they choose to dismiss him. It's not that he wants eternal firewood, he loves us all very deeply--more than any of us know now. He show that on the cross. The point is even though he already knows who's going to make or not still doesn't mean he's going to roll up the carpet before we have a chance at freewill.

The fact that God knows us as perfectly as He does and therefore being able to know what kinds of choices we'll make when presented with a certain set of circumstances is not the same thing as Him having chosen to save some and damn others before they were ever born.

[Aenea]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

And I guess He just created the rest of us to be His eternal firewood. Sounds like a truly loving Father in Heaven.

It is written in Romans 9:18 "Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth."

[Troublemane]

If God is 100% one with all existence (which I believe firmly to be the case), then salvation cannot be a condition of joining God, but only to a state of ignorance that God is everything already. Once you become aware of others being part of God/the Divine Unity (including yourself) then salvation begins. Salvation continues as you begin to treat others accordingly, respecting their inherent sacredness as part of the divine unity. There is no magical transformation of some invisible substance, there is no laying on of hands by a preacher, no words or incantations that will make you saved. You have to realize it yourself, so it cannot be predestined.

If salvation is merely the recognition that we are all part of God already there is no guarantee that anyone will realize it, or having realized it then treating others accordingly. Those who actually do realize this wont necessarily equate it with being "saved", just as those who think they are "saved" (due to some religious ritual perhaps)may not be able to see others as being divine beings inherently.

Its not that the two cannot coincide, its that the actual number of people claiming to be "saved" is not necessarily the same set of people who indeed are.