Judaism: Gentiles and the Noahide Laws (Earth, Torah, exodus, minority)

[Nimrauko]

Gentiles and the Noahide Laws
By: Nimrauko
With References from The Torah A Modern Commentary
by Plaut (Put out by the URJ)


“Even before the revelation at Sinai, certain laws were according to the rabbis, binding on all people. This view holds that while Jews are subject to the extensive provisions of the Torah, all non -jews must observe at least a number of fundamental precepts deemed essential for the maintenance of a decent society. These Laws are called Noahide; they were believed to have been incumbent on the children of Noah and therefore to have become obligatory for humankind., since from Noah's offspring “the whole earth was populated” (Gen. 9:19) [34]

In interpreting chapter 2, verse 16, the Rabbis established six such basic laws: People may not worship idols; they may not blaspheme g-d; they must establish courts of justice; they may not kill; they may not commit adultery; and they may not rob. A seventh Law- that they may not eat flesh cut from a living animal- was added after the flood (gen. 9:4). Rabbinic Lists vary, but the basic concept remains the same: everyone can arrive at and must come to observe a minimum of religious and legal precepts.”

Regardless of your religious affiliation, you are bound by 6 Universal laws. The Noahide laws apply to all peoples, regardless of Religious Belief, or lack thereof, Race, National Origin, or Gender. These 6 universal laws are so elementary, yet so fundamental. Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not Blaspheme against g-d, Establish courts of Justice, Do not Steal, and Do not worship Idols. These six simple laws should hold no controversy.....right?

Wrong. These laws are debated amongst the Extremists in Judaism. I did not personally believe that my faith had radicals or extremists. I said that Islam and Christianity had them, but not Judaism. We were above that. But over recent days I have read some pretty extreme things from hard line ultra orthodox jews. I am shocked an appalled. One claimed that if a Rabbi told him to kill non-jews or gays in the holy land, he would do it. “Torah says to stone the gays” and other such things. Is this what we want done to our faith?

I am not here to debate Homosexuality in Judaism. That will be for another day. Today I am going to tackle the extremist view that non-jews in the holy land must be killed. For it is this most shocking and debilitating view, that will only hurt us in the long run, and put animosity at our door, and self put in my view.

Throughout our history, we Jews have been persecuted. In Egypt, we were slaves and treated poorly. G-d brought us from the land and gave us a simple task. Treat the strangers in our land (The non-jews) well, for it says “You shall not wrong the stranger or oppress him, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt” (Exodus 22:20). We were further oppressed since then, so many times that they would take up more space than I have time to fill. We shall fast forward to the most recent atrocity committed against us. The Shoah (the Holocaust). During Hitlers reign, Millions of Jews (And other minorities) were murdered in Nazi Concentration camps.

Well shortly after WWII ended, the U.N gave Israel back to us (In 1948). Well since the modern state of Israel existed, Palestinians have been slaughtered and put in Ghettos and all sorts of deplorable things enacted against them. I am not Anti-Israel, but I do think that the Policies in Israel of today are a far cry from what Torah commands. We treat the strangers in our land very poorly, and it is shameful.

Jewish extremists want Israel to become a theocracy so they can eliminate the strangers in their midst. This in my eyes is a attack on Jewish fundamentals. These jewish extremists are no better than the Nazis that killed 6 Million of our People during the Shoah. They are also no better than the Christians that twist the Torah to fit their demented, and sometimes evil, ideologies. You can not quote Torah to fuel hate, when its message is the opposite. You cant pick and chose.

I think it is bound time that we unite and take back our faith. These few that hold the extremists views, may become the Majority if left unchecked. Its not only the Rabbi's responsibility to educate our youth, but also the Parents, or for those of sound age, to educate themselves. We are not just Jews on the Sabbath. We are Jews always. It should be at the front of our minds always. We should be informed, not misinformed. I have said this in past about Christian Religious Leaders, but I will apply it now to Rabbis. If a Rabbi tells you to hate, or to kill in G-d's name, then he is not a good man. He speaks things that are against the word of G-d.

We must unite on this. We can not focus merely on the extremists outside of our faith, but we must look at those inside our faiths.

**I hope this is the right place to put this**

[jewscout]

Well shortly after WWII ended, the U.N gave Israel back to us (In 1948). Well since the modern state of Israel existed, Palestinians have been slaughtered and put in Ghettos and all sorts of deplorable things enacted against them.

while i do not disagree with certain civil rights issues within israel i think this sort of comparison between the slaughter of the Shoah and the state of the palestinians which is largely allowed to continue due to the inefficiency of their own leadership and that of the Arab nations is misleading.

what does the Torah say about someone who lives amongst you yet wants to see you and your people wiped out?

[Nimrauko]

You can not oppress all based on a Radical Minority.
I do admit that the comparison between what happened during the Shoah and whats being done to the Palestinians was a bit of a far stretch, but I use it to make a point. We can't treat all the Palestinians poorly because there are extremists amongst them. It brings to mind what is going on now with the war in Iraq and the war On "Terror". People fear all muslims now and I have noticed a great deal of Christian based groups calling all muslims "Evil" "Terrorists" etc. We have begun to create class divisions, based on Religion and Race. Its startling that in this modern era we still divide ourselves based on Race and Religion.

Now, the Torah does not say to not defend yourself when your being attacked, but it certainly no where says to Oppress a whole group, because there may be those who wish to harm you amongst them.

I hope that made sense lol
I have a tenancy to want to go 1,000,000 different directions at once, to cover all the points bouncing about in my head, but I often forget to complete them :P

[jewscout]

again not to say that there aren't civil rights issues to be dealt with in israel,but to say that the state that the Palestinians find themselves in is the sole fault and responsibility of Israel and the Jewish people is giving the PA and arab leadership in general too much credit IMPO.

we can only do so much but there is, i think, more to be done for the Palestinians by their own leadership than anything we can do.
billions have been given in international aid to the PA yet most palestinians can't even get paid or basic services, i find it hard to believe that all of this is OUR fault and responsibility.
Arafat died w/ millions, where did all that money come from? selling lemonade?

the question and problem is which takes precedence, security or civil rights? and of course choosing one over the other each comes with a price. The better question is how to create a balance? I don't know that there is an easy answer...if there was there wouldn't be this problem.

[Nimrauko]

Originally Posted by jewscout

again not to say that there aren't civil rights issues to be dealt with in israel,but to say that the state that the Palestinians find themselves in is the sole fault and responsibility of Israel and the Jewish people is giving the PA and arab leadership in general too much credit IMPO.

we can only do so much but there is, i think, more to be done for the Palestinians by their own leadership than anything we can do.
billions have been given in international aid to the PA yet most palestinians can't even get paid or basic services, i find it hard to believe that all of this is OUR fault and responsibility.
Arafat died w/ millions, where did all that money come from? selling lemonade?

the question and problem is which takes precedence, security or civil rights? and of course choosing one over the other each comes with a price. The better question is how to create a balance? I don't know that there is an easy answer...if there was there wouldn't be this problem.

I appreciate your civility

Here is my whole take on the situation. If Israel wants to see peace in its borders, in terms of Palestinian/Israeli relations, then several things must be done. There must be a Palestinian voice in the Israeli government, which I dont think is the case now. If the Palestinians had a voice in Politics things would be a bit better. Another thing that must be done is Leaders from both sides, Islamic and Jewish must speak out against Extremism and open a Dialog. Now I am not saying Israel is fully in the wrong in the Palestinian conflict. But they have a part. Now even if there is a Dialog I can assure you a stand still will show up when the Subject of Har Habayit comes up.

[jewscout]

Originally Posted by Nimrauko

I appreciate your civility

Here is my whole take on the situation. If Israel wants to see peace in its borders, in terms of Palestinian/Israeli relations, then several things must be done. There must be a Palestinian voice in the Israeli government, which I dont think is the case now. If the Palestinians had a voice in Politics things would be a bit better. Another thing that must be done is Leaders from both sides, Islamic and Jewish must speak out against Extremism and open a Dialog. Now I am not saying Israel is fully in the wrong in the Palestinian conflict. But they have a part. Now even if there is a Dialog I can assure you a stand still will show up when the Subject of Har Habayit comes up.

why should Palestinians have a voice in Israeli government? should the French have a voice in Canadian government too? or maybe Uganada can have a voice in American government?
They, supposedly, have a voice, it's called the Palestinian Authority. It's not our fault or problem that this voice is corrupt and negligent.
Arab Israelis who are loyal citizens of the state should have a say.
Those that identify themselves as Palestinians who do not want to be a part of Israel do not and this thought of allowing such a voice is counterproductive to the idea of a 2 state solution and only paves the way to a 1 state solution: a Palestinian state built on the ashes of 6 million more dead jews.

[NoahideHiker]

Originally Posted by Nimrauko

Gentiles and the Noahide Laws
By: Nimrauko
With References from The Torah A Modern Commentary
by Plaut (Put out by the URJ)


“Even before the revelation at Sinai, certain laws were according to the rabbis, binding on all people. This view holds that while Jews are subject to the extensive provisions of the Torah, all non -jews must observe at least a number of fundamental precepts deemed essential for the maintenance of a decent society. These Laws are called Noahide; they were believed to have been incumbent on the children of Noah and therefore to have become obligatory for humankind., since from Noah's offspring “the whole earth was populated” (Gen. 9:19) [34]

In interpreting chapter 2, verse 16, the Rabbis established six such basic laws: People may not worship idols; they may not blaspheme g-d; they must establish courts of justice; they may not kill; they may not commit adultery; and they may not rob. A seventh Law- that they may not eat flesh cut from a living animal- was added after the flood (gen. 9:4). Rabbinic Lists vary, but the basic concept remains the same: everyone can arrive at and must come to observe a minimum of religious and legal precepts.”

Regardless of your religious affiliation, you are bound by 6 Universal laws. The Noahide laws apply to all peoples, regardless of Religious Belief, or lack thereof, Race, National Origin, or Gender. These 6 universal laws are so elementary, yet so fundamental. Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not Blaspheme against g-d, Establish courts of Justice, Do not Steal, and Do not worship Idols. These six simple laws should hold no controversy.....right?

Wrong. These laws are debated amongst the Extremists in Judaism. I did not personally believe that my faith had radicals or extremists. I said that Islam and Christianity had them, but not Judaism. We were above that. But over recent days I have read some pretty extreme things from hard line ultra orthodox jews. I am shocked an appalled. One claimed that if a Rabbi told him to kill non-jews or gays in the holy land, he would do it. “Torah says to stone the gays” and other such things. Is this what we want done to our faith?

I am not here to debate Homosexuality in Judaism. That will be for another day. Today I am going to tackle the extremist view that non-jews in the holy land must be killed. For it is this most shocking and debilitating view, that will only hurt us in the long run, and put animosity at our door, and self put in my view.

Throughout our history, we Jews have been persecuted. In Egypt, we were slaves and treated poorly. G-d brought us from the land and gave us a simple task. Treat the strangers in our land (The non-jews) well, for it says “You shall not wrong the stranger or oppress him, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt” (Exodus 22:20). We were further oppressed since then, so many times that they would take up more space than I have time to fill. We shall fast forward to the most recent atrocity committed against us. The Shoah (the Holocaust). During Hitlers reign, Millions of Jews (And other minorities) were murdered in Nazi Concentration camps.

Well shortly after WWII ended, the U.N gave Israel back to us (In 1948). Well since the modern state of Israel existed, Palestinians have been slaughtered and put in Ghettos and all sorts of deplorable things enacted against them. I am not Anti-Israel, but I do think that the Policies in Israel of today are a far cry from what Torah commands. We treat the strangers in our land very poorly, and it is shameful.

Jewish extremists want Israel to become a theocracy so they can eliminate the strangers in their midst. This in my eyes is a attack on Jewish fundamentals. These jewish extremists are no better than the Nazis that killed 6 Million of our People during the Shoah. They are also no better than the Christians that twist the Torah to fit their demented, and sometimes evil, ideologies. You can not quote Torah to fuel hate, when its message is the opposite. You cant pick and chose.

I think it is bound time that we unite and take back our faith. These few that hold the extremists views, may become the Majority if left unchecked. Its not only the Rabbi's responsibility to educate our youth, but also the Parents, or for those of sound age, to educate themselves. We are not just Jews on the Sabbath. We are Jews always. It should be at the front of our minds always. We should be informed, not misinformed. I have said this in past about Christian Religious Leaders, but I will apply it now to Rabbis. If a Rabbi tells you to hate, or to kill in G-d's name, then he is not a good man. He speaks things that are against the word of G-d.

We must unite on this. We can not focus merely on the extremists outside of our faith, but we must look at those inside our faiths.

**I hope this is the right place to put this**

While I believe every view has a right to be heard we must take with the sources of what shapes our views. This article cites many horrible misconceptions and lies.

Jewish extremists want Israel to become a theocracy so they can eliminate the strangers in their midst.

This is completely false and he shows no proof of it. He shows no sources or even a name for these alleged views.

Would it not be safer to study Torah than opinion pieces?

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by NoahideHiker

This is completely false and he shows no proof of it. He shows no sources or even a name for these alleged views.

Well said!

[jewscout]

indeed!