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  #1  
Old 09-26-2007, 12:48 AM
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Comprehend thinks frubals grow on trees
Comprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on trees
Comprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on trees
Default Christians - The Fall of Adam and the Atonement
Christians - If the Atonement was planned before the foundation of the world (1Pet. 1:20) and the Atonement isn't necessary without the Fall of Adam, how was the Fall not planned before the foundation of the world as well?
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  #2  
Old 09-26-2007, 11:37 AM
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Comprehend thinks frubals grow on trees
Comprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on trees
Comprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on trees
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bump.
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  #3  
Old 09-26-2007, 12:20 PM
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Mister Emu has a stash of frubals in the Cayman IslandsMister Emu has a stash of frubals in the Cayman IslandsMister Emu has a stash of frubals in the Cayman IslandsMister Emu has a stash of frubals in the Cayman IslandsMister Emu has a stash of frubals in the Cayman IslandsMister Emu has a stash of frubals in the Cayman IslandsMister Emu has a stash of frubals in the Cayman IslandsMister Emu has a stash of frubals in the Cayman IslandsMister Emu has a stash of frubals in the Cayman IslandsMister Emu has a stash of frubals in the Cayman IslandsMister Emu has a stash of frubals in the Cayman IslandsMister Emu has a stash of frubals in the Cayman IslandsMister Emu has a stash of frubals in the Cayman IslandsMister Emu has a stash of frubals in the Cayman IslandsMister Emu has a stash of frubals in the Cayman IslandsMister Emu has a stash of frubals in the Cayman IslandsMister Emu has a stash of frubals in the Cayman IslandsMister Emu has a stash of frubals in the Cayman IslandsMister Emu has a stash of frubals in the Cayman IslandsMister Emu has a stash of frubals in the Cayman IslandsMister Emu has a stash of frubals in the Cayman Islands
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The Fall was incorporated because God knew it would happen...
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  #4  
Old 09-26-2007, 01:37 PM
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Comprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on trees
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Originally Posted by Mister Emu View Post
The Fall was incorporated because God knew it would happen...
Are you saying that it was out of God's control or that it was planned?
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  #5  
Old 09-27-2007, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Comprehend View Post
Are you saying that it was out of God's control or that it was planned?
He knew it would happen and planned for it.
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  #6  
Old 09-27-2007, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by sandy whitelinger View Post
He knew it would happen and planned for it.
Did God put the tree there on purpose or was it a mistake?
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  #7  
Old 09-27-2007, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Comprehend View Post
Did God put the tree there on purpose or was it a mistake?
I believe He put it there on purpose. Adam and Eve needed to understand both good and evil in order to be able to learn and progress. More significant, though, is the question of why He permitted Lucifer/Satan to tempt them. They would have had free will (i.e. free agency, freedom of choice, etc.) whether Satan was there or not. He told them not to eat that particular fruit, and He told them what the consequences for their disobedience would be. Nothing more was necessary had He simply wanted to allow them to choose for themselves. What nobody has ever been able to explain to my satisfaction is why He permitted Lucifer/Satan to tempt them. When you stop and think about it, He not only knew what was going to happen, He put them in a position where they were almost guaranteed to succumb to temptation. They knew they had been told not to eat the forbidden fruit, but since they didn't understand how serious disobedience was and were tempted with godhood, how else could we expect them to respond? The bottom line is that God not only knew what was going to happen, without actually forcing them to make the decision they did, He definitely set the stage to facilitate the outcome He knew would ultimately be the most beneficial to them.
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  #8  
Old 09-27-2007, 10:53 PM
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What's the advantage of telling them not to eat the fruit if that is the outcome God desired for them?

Why not just invite them to eat the fruit if that is the most beneficial outcome?
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  #9  
Old 09-27-2007, 10:55 PM
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Comprehend thinks frubals grow on trees
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Comprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on treesComprehend thinks frubals grow on trees
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Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I believe He put it there on purpose. Adam and Eve needed to understand both good and evil in order to be able to learn and progress. More significant, though, is the question of why He permitted Lucifer/Satan to tempt them. They would have had free will (i.e. free agency, freedom of choice, etc.) whether Satan was there or not. He told them not to eat that particular fruit, and He told them what the consequences for their disobedience would be. Nothing more was necessary had He simply wanted to allow them to choose for themselves. What nobody has ever been able to explain to my satisfaction is why He permitted Lucifer/Satan to tempt them. When you stop and think about it, He not only knew what was going to happen, He put them in a position where they were almost guaranteed to succumb to temptation. They knew they had been told not to eat the forbidden fruit, but since they didn't understand how serious disobedience was and were tempted with godhood, how else could we expect them to respond? The bottom line is that God not only knew what was going to happen, without actually forcing them to make the decision they did, He definitely set the stage to facilitate the outcome He knew would ultimately be the most beneficial to them.
Great. The only serious response I get is from someone who believes the same way I do.


Maybe other Christian religions don't teach anything about the fall because I can't get anyone to discuss it.
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  #10  
Old 09-27-2007, 10:56 PM
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