Christians Only: The Case Against Hell (Jesus, ritual, punishment, reject)

[Sunstone]

Heaven and Hell are just metaphors for Enlightened and Unenlightened awareness.

[LoveNeverFails]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

Heaven and Hell are just metaphors for Enlightened and Unenlightened awareness.

They are both metaphor and literal.

[Sunstone]

Originally Posted by LoveNeverFails

They are both metaphor and literal.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I don't think there's any evidence for a literal existence of Heaven or Hell.

[MaddLlama]

Originally Posted by LoveNeverFails

Did you read the links on Molech? Very bloodthirsty I would say.

What I meant by that is hell as a place of concious torment, not necessarily as hellfire, although different aspects of such beliefs can be found. Yes, that was found in the cultures surrounding theirs.

As one example, in Egypt, Osiris, the king of the dead and forty-two demon assistants, judged the soul, or ka. If the ka was condemned, it spent eternity in hunger and thirst or it was torn to pieces by executioners.



I think perhaps we have a misunderstanding, and I apologize. Yes, I know it was not a place of concious torment. However it was recognized to be a place where all souls went after death, just as the Jews believed in Sheol in the same fashion.

My point is to point out how traditional Christians don't realize that hell as they so dogmatically believe it to be is a mish-mash of all sorts of ancient and more modern concepts of the afterlife, from both the lands surrounding Israel and from Europe as well. I don't wish to get this thread hung up on symantics regarding what is pagan or derailed in any other fashion.



Again we have a misunderstanding (I think). Again, to clarify, there were beliefs of concious torment in the afterlife, and THAT is what is simular IMO.

Most religions have such examples of violence. I object to the attitude of the OP that basically says "Christianity = good and love, Paganism=violence, evil and bloodlust" and I definitely object to that dichotomy.

[LoveNeverFails]

Originally Posted by MaddLlama

Most religions have such examples of violence. I object to the attitude of the OP that basically says "Christianity = good and love, Paganism=violence, evil and bloodlust" and I definitely object to that dichotomy.

I apologize for the misunderstanding, as that was not my intent. I don't see why this must be bent to such a slant and not kept on topic. I would like to dicuss with others of the same faith, as that is where I posted this thread, as to why they agree or disagree with the claims I have made regarding the basis for the Christian belief in hell.

However, you I think are still not acknowledging the fact that some of the "pagan" (as referred to by some) nations surrounding them did in fact have some very bloody and evil practices in their religions. THAT is what I am referring to, not paganism as it's defined today, wiccanism, or whatever else. Simply the religious practices--some of which WERE barbaric--found in the cultures surrounding the Ancient Israelites during the period in question.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

I don't think there's any evidence for a literal existence of Heaven or Hell.

Uh... just curious. What exactly would you consider "evidence," Phil?

[sandy whitelinger]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

Heaven and Hell are just metaphors for Enlightened and Unenlightened awareness.

Your view of heaven and hell,both being scriptural concepts, is not in line with scripture but seems to be your opinion.

[LoveNeverFails]

Originally Posted by sandy whitelinger

Your view of heaven and hell,both being scriptural concepts, is not in line with scripture but seems to be your opinion.

Well said!