Why Dont Christians Accept the Book of Mormon as Valid? (Jesus, Earth)

[DeepShadow]

Originally Posted by tomspug

Well, if you ignore that one

I didn't. I refuted it, because it's false.

there's the belief that man can become God (and no, Jesus quoting Psalms in John 10 for rhetorical purposes does not a theology make) in spite of the fact that the Bible teaches that man's desire to become like God was essentially the BIRTH of sin and the reason he was kicked out of paradise.

Man's hubris doesn't override God's love. Don't force a contradiction where there isn't one.

There's also the belief that works is tantamount to faith, even though Jesus spent almost his entire ministry criticizing the Pharisees for being hypocrites in this same respect.

Same song, second verse. James said that faith without works is dead. Do you disagree?

Another one is the belief that not only is the Book of Mormon scripture, it holds higher authority than the Bible, therefore negating any supposed contradictions.

If we believed that, that would be a valid argument for disliking the BoM. But we don't believe it.

By the way, for the sake of discussion, it would be polite for you to respond to my comments rather than simply goading me until I say something you want to respond to.

I responded to them. I refuted them. Have you nothing to say to me?

[nutshell]

Originally Posted by tomspug

Well, if you ignore that one, there's the belief that man can become God (and no, Jesus quoting Psalms in John 10 for rhetorical purposes does not a theology make) in spite of the fact that the Bible teaches that man's desire to become like God was essentially the BIRTH of sin and the reason he was kicked out of paradise.

There's also the belief that works is tantamount to faith, even though Jesus spent almost his entire ministry criticizing the Pharisees for being hypocrites in this same respect.

Another one is the belief that not only is the Book of Mormon scripture, it holds higher authority than the Bible, therefore negating any supposed contradictions.

By the way, for the sake of discussion, it would be polite for you to respond to my comments rather than simply goading me until I say something you want to respond to.

This post demonstrates the misinformation you've received concerning LDS beliefs. Perhaps we can start a separate thread and give you accurate information.

[tomspug]

Hey, I'm really sorry LordShadow. I totally didn't see your post. I was responding to madhatter. I'd be happy to answer your responses.

According to scriptures.lds.org, the passage of 1 Nephi 13 is described as the revelation of Nephi where he observes as the creation of a 'gentile apostacy' (which when I read the scripture myself, seemed to imply the Gentile Christian church, lds.org seems to confirm this). Here is the passage:

1 And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me, saying: Look! And I looked and beheld many nations and kingdoms.
2 And the angel said unto me: What beholdest thou? And I said: I behold many a nations and kingdoms.

3 And he said unto me: These are the nations and kingdoms of the Gentiles.

4 And it came to pass that I saw among the nations of the a Gentiles the formation of a great church.

5 And the angel said unto me: Behold the formation of a church which is most abominable above all other churches, which slayeth the saints of God, yea, and tortureth them and bindeth them down, and yoketh them with a yoke of iron, and bringeth them down into captivity.

6 And it came to pass that I beheld this great and abominable church; and I saw the devil that he was the founder of it.

Man's hubris doesn't override God's love. Don't force a contradiction where there isn't one.

You're going to have to explain yourself better than that. I want a straight answer as to why the Bible describes the pursuit of godhood to be the basis of all sin. It's black and white, right there. It's not a vague concept. The very definition of sin is the desire to BECOME GOD. I don't see how God being a God of love gets around that somehow.

Same song, second verse. James said that faith without works is dead. Do you disagree?

Of course I don't, but you again dodged my point. You're not using any rhetoric to counter my argument, you're just making blurbs. Try Paul instead of James:

Romans 9:30-33 30 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the "stumbling stone." 33 As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."In other words, God accepts works as an act of faith, but it also has the ability to make visible those hypocrites who regard their works as something of value. Elihu explains this to Job:
Job 35:4-8 5 Look up at the heavens and see; gaze at the clouds so high above you. 6 If you sin, how does that affect him? If your sins are many, what does that do to him? 7 If you are righteous, what do you give to him, or what does he receive from your hand? 8 Your wickedness affects only a man like yourself, and your righteousness only the sons of men.

But we don't believe it.

Not that I don't believe you, but I would like a quote from the Book of Mormon to prove that your church really believes that the Bible has authority over all other texts.

[Bishka]

Originally Posted by tomspug

Hey, I'm really sorry LordShadow. I totally didn't see your post. I was responding to madhatter. I'd be happy to answer your responses.

Here's a bright idea. If you want to know what Mormons believe - ask a Mormon. This is LDS doctrine and we are LDS. Do you expect a Baptist to explain Catholic doctrine? No. That's ridiculous. It's our beliefs, we know our interpretation and what our doctrine says. How about letting us explain it to you?

Note: The "Gentile Church: you think you know about isn't so. Any Church that preaches of Jesus Christ and lives by His precepts is the Church of the Lamb, any that leads us away from Christ is the Church of the Devil. Satisfied?

[Bishka]

Originally Posted by tomspug

the Book of Mormon to prove that your church really believes that the Bible has authority over all other texts.

We don't. Where the hell did you get that idea?

[nutshell]

Originally Posted by tomspug

According to scriptures.lds.org, the passage of 1 Nephi 13 is described as the revelation of Nephi where he observes as the creation of a 'gentile apostacy' (which when I read the scripture myself, seemed to imply the Gentile Christian church, lds.org seems to confirm this). Here is the passage:

1 And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me, saying: Look! And I looked and beheld many nations and kingdoms.
2 And the angel said unto me: What beholdest thou? And I said: I behold many a nations and kingdoms.

3 And he said unto me: These are the nations and kingdoms of the Gentiles.

4 And it came to pass that I saw among the nations of the a Gentiles the formation of a great church.

5 And the angel said unto me: Behold the formation of a church which is most abominable above all other churches, which slayeth the saints of God, yea, and tortureth them and bindeth them down, and yoketh them with a yoke of iron, and bringeth them down into captivity.

6 And it came to pass that I beheld this great and abominable church; and I saw the devil that he was the founder of it.

I'm not sure what you'r getting at. The great and abominable church is not a specific organization. Rather, it is the collection of those who fight against Christ/God.

Originally Posted by tomspug

You're going to have to explain yourself better than that. I want a straight answer as to why the Bible describes the pursuit of godhood to be the basis of all sin. It's black and white, right there. It's not a vague concept. The very definition of sin is the desire to BECOME GOD. I don't see how God being a God of love gets around that somehow.

The Bible promises that we can be joint heirs with Christ. This is not accomplished by lifting ourselves up. Rather, it can be accomplished through humility - making ourselves low and submissive.

Originally Posted by tomspug

Try Paul instead of James:

Romans 9:30-33 30 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the "stumbling stone." 33 As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."In other words, God accepts works as an act of faith, but it also has the ability to make visible those hypocrites who regard their works as something of value. Elihu explains this to Job:
Job 35:4-8 5 Look up at the heavens and see; gaze at the clouds so high above you. 6 If you sin, how does that affect him? If your sins are many, what does that do to him? 7 If you are righteous, what do you give to him, or what does he receive from your hand? 8 Your wickedness affects only a man like yourself, and your righteousness only the sons of men.Not that I don't believe you, but I would like a quote from the Book of Mormon to prove that your church really believes that the Bible has authority over all other texts.

A quote from the Book of Mormon? Again, it's questions like that that make it evident you don't know LDS scriptures, what they contain, or what they're about. Can you please separate what you're trying to say in the above block. What is it you'd like to know: 1) The LDS position on faith and works; or, 2) The LDS position on the Bible and the Book of Mormon?

[nutshell]

Tomspug: If you go here: Scriptures you'll see the LDS canon (excluding the study guides). As you can see, the Bible and Book of Mormon are both listed and we value them equally.