Why Dont Christians Accept the Book of Mormon as Valid? (Jesus, Earth)

[Melissa G]

Everybody has a agenda, even Mr Smith.

[Polaris]

Originally Posted by Melissa G

That's just nonsense. Smith wasn't such an uneducated person as is made out.

While he was definitely extremely intelligent, he was uneducated. You do know the difference right?

but lets consider these magical golden plates which just as magically disappeared.

Magically disappeared? You're losing credibility by the moment. The plates were given to angel Moroni after the translation was complete. There purpose on earth was fulfilled.

Now Thomas Ford, Governer of Illinois wrote about how Smith obtained the signatures of the Eight. Having assembled them in a room, Smith produced a box in which he said were contained the plates. When the lid was opened, the box was empty (hehe). It was said to Smith, by the Eight that they could see no plates, to which Smith replied. ' Oh yea of little faith ect ect( heard that somewhere before) !, Smith preceeded to berate them for being wicked. After two hours of prayers on their knees, they were persuaded they could see the plates.

Please inform us as to how Governer Ford was so intimately acquainted with the 8 witnesses and the event that transpired with them.

Reminds me of the Emperor's new clothes. I have no doubt that the whole Mormon Church is based on fakery.

Good for you. You can tell that to Joseph yourself when you see him on the other side.

[SoyLeche]

Originally Posted by Melissa G

Everybody has a agenda, even Mr Smith.

You realize that almost every single one of the witnesses at one point or another had major issues with Smith. A couple of them ended up hating him - and yet they never recanted what they saw.

But I guess Governor Ford is still the more credible source.

[SoyLeche]

Going after the witnesses is another dead end for you.

You seem to like attacking the positions that are easiest to defend...

[Polaris]

Originally Posted by Melissa G

Now Thomas Ford, Governer of Illinois wrote about how Smith obtained the signatures of the Eight. Having assembled them in a room, Smith produced a box in which he said were contained the plates. When the lid was opened, the box was empty (hehe). It was said to Smith, by the Eight that they could see no plates, to which Smith replied. ' Oh yea of little faith ect ect( heard that somewhere before) !, Smith preceeded to berate them for being wicked. After two hours of prayers on their knees, they were persuaded they could see the plates.

I'm sorry I couldn't help but come back to this ridiculous attack by Melissa. It's a perfect example of clueless, unsubstantiateable, anti-mormon filth.

Governer Ford was governer of Illinois. The Mormons didn't arrive in Illinois until the early 1840's. The 8 witnesses were shown the gold plates in 1829 in upstate New York. So please inform us Melissa how Governer Ford could possibly have had any clue as to what happened when the eight witnesses where shown the plates.

Absolutely ridiculous.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Melissa G

Smith wasn't such an uneducated person as is made out.

Really? Why don't you help us out here, Melissa. Tell us about Joseph Smith's education, particularly his education prior to 1829.

...but lets consider these magical golden plates which just as magically disappeared.

Yes, let's. How about we start by your explaining your reference to the plates as "magic." This would be helpful to us, since I'm sure none of us had any idea there was anything magic about them.

Originally, he had a supposed three witnesses. But then he later added another eight.

And this is a problem because?

Now Thomas Ford, Governer of Illinois wrote about how Smith obtained the signatures of the Eight. Having assembled them in a room, Smith produced a box in which he said were contained the plates. When the lid was opened, the box was empty (hehe). It was said to Smith, by the Eight that they could see no plates, to which Smith replied. ' Oh yea of little faith ect ect( heard that somewhere before) !, Smith preceeded to berate them for being wicked. After two hours of prayers on their knees, they were persuaded they could see the plates.

Considering the fact that Thomas Ford lived 800 miles from where the eight witnesses claimed to have seen the plates and that this event took place some 25 years prior to his writing the "History of Illinois," one can't help but wonder why you put such stock in what he has to say.

Reminds me of the Emperor's new clothes. I have no doubt that the whole Mormon Church is based on fakery.

And your attempt to discredit the LDS Church reminds me of the big bad wolf and the story of the "Three Little Pigs." Let's see... How'd that go? "And I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll blow your house down!"

[madhatter85]

Originally Posted by Melissa G

Everybody has a agenda, even Mr Smith.

And his only Agenda was to help bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.


If it was for power, why is the same priesthood power the apostles have, bestowed upon every worthy man to help bless his family and those he is in service to?

If it was for Money, why did he never take any for himself? why is there no beneficiary to the LDS Church's enormous wealth?

If it was a means to control the masses, why do we encourage gaining as much secular and spiritual education as possible and making decisions for ourselves? seems to me the most effective way control the masses is to keep them as stupid as possible. Every bit of scripture and revelation is available to the entire world, we do not keep a single portion of it "for the initiated" or those "in power" or any such nonsense.

Agenda? the only agenda here is to allow people to know God personally.

[look3467]

The bible says: Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

Division is the order of things that by dividing there may be discernment between night and day, between signs and seasons, days and years.

Do not all belong to one God?

Then mankind comes into the picture and demands what everybody else wants: Luk 12:13 And one of the company said unto him, Master, speak to my brother, that he divide the inheritance with me.

All our religious differences are divisions of which we are all looking at the same God, yet each one of us are claiming the inheritance as ours.

That might not be quite the verses that clear depict what I want to say but close.

A mature believer I believe is one that will accept the differences amongst ourselves with the love of the same God we are all claiming to have, and allow everyone to be who they are without drawing any lines in the sand.

I used to argue with Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Seventh day Adventist, and others in trying to tell them that if they didn’t accept Jesus as their Savior like I did were all going to hell.

What a mentality that was. Of course, I was immature and still in 101 class in learning.

Since, I ‘ve learned allot and now I still believe just as strong in my Savior Jesus, but am open to all souls being loved by God and to allow them to practice their own beliefs and still love them, have fellowship with them.

The whole point of division I think is to unite the whole as one body and the glue that binds them all together is love.

Peace>>>AJ