Why Dont Christians Accept the Book of Mormon as Valid? (Jesus, Earth)

[Polaris]

Originally Posted by Free4all

Well, without reading any of the (1??) or so threads, and hoping I don't repeat someone else. Here is one quicky -------
Malachi 3 in the "book of mormon" is the King James text! Whoever wrote the "book of mormon" (far from writing it at the time of the American Indians 2000 B.C.-1000 A.D.) waited until 1611 to hack off those golden plates.......

There are also several chapters that match word for word passages from Isaiah. It is important to point out that Joseph didn't receive a word-for-word verbatim translation. The inspired translation consisted of a flowing of information in a more conceptual manner. For the most part the exact wording was left to Joseph (hence the KJV-like language). It makes perfect sense to believe that he may very well have used his KJV Bible to serve as a reference for certain passages that contained quotes from OT scripture. In the cases where the KJV text provided an accurate representation it was likely used as is.

[Polaris]

Originally Posted by look3467

Does it say any where in the book of Mormon that the words are inspired by God?
Peace>>>AJ

It does in many passages. Here's just one of the many:

"(10) And now, my beloved brethren ... hearken unto these words and believe in Christ; and if ye believe not in these words believe in Christ. And if ye shall believe in Christ ye will believe in these words, for they are the words of Christ, and he hath given them unto me; and they teach all men that they should do good. (11) And if they are not the words of Christ, judge ye—for Christ will show unto you, with power and great glory that they are his words, at the last day; and you and I shall stand face to face before his bar; and ye shall know that I have been commanded of him to write these things, notwithstanding my weakness." (2 Nephi 33:10-11)

[look3467]

Fair enough.

Peace>>>AJ

[SoyLeche]

Originally Posted by Polaris

There are also several chapters that match word for word passages from Isaiah. It is important to point out that Joseph didn't receive a word-for-word verbatim translation. The inspired translation consisted of a flowing of information in a more conceptual manner. For the most part the exact wording was left to Joseph (hence the KJV-like language). It makes perfect sense to believe that he may very well have used his KJV Bible to serve as a reference for certain passages that contained quotes from OT scripture. In the cases where the KJV text provided an accurate representation it was likely used as is.

The Malachi chapters were written by Malachi after Lehi had already left. When Christ tells the Nephites what Malachi says he makes a point of telling them that there had been some things written that he wanted them to know. I would suppose that Christ would have been able to quote them exactly as they were written.

You are most likely correct about their translation into English.

[SoyLeche]

Originally Posted by SoyLeche

The Malachi chapters were written by Malachi after Lehi had already left. When Christ tells the Nephites what Malachi says he makes a point of telling them that there had been some things written that he wanted them to know. I would suppose that Christ would have been able to quote them exactly as they were written.

You are most likely correct about their translation into English.

The only one that really confused me for a while was when Moroni seemed to be quoting Paul - until I realized (read somewhere )that it was possible that they were both quoting an earlier source.

[DeepShadow]

Originally Posted by DeepShadow

Anyone want to comment on the 1st Nephi megachiasmus that I posted? Is my favorite penguicken still out there?

I hate to bug everyone, but my posts are getting buried.

Chiasmus? Anyone?

[SoyLeche]

Originally Posted by DeepShadow

I hate to bug everyone, but my posts are getting buried.

Chiasmus? Anyone?

Other then say that it is an amazing piece of work that I am planning on looking at in detail when I find the time - I don't have much to say about it

Could you provide the verses?

[madhatter85]

I am going to quote a talk given by Jeffery R. Holland in 1995 Regarding the Authenticity of the Book of Mormon.

A good deal has been said about the authorship—therefore, the divine origins—of the Book of Mormon. But then there has always been a lot said about it ever since it first rolled off the old E. B. Grandin press in downtown Palmyra, New York, on 26 March 1830.

Let me quote a very powerful comment from President Ezra Taft Benson: “The Book of Mormon is the keystone of [our] testimony. Just as the arch crumbles if the keystone is removed, so does all the Church stand or fall with the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. The enemies of the Church understand this clearly. This is why they go to such great lengths to try to disprove the Book of Mormon, for if it can be discredited, the Prophet Joseph Smith goes with it. So does our claim to priesthood keys, and revelation, and the restored Church. But in like manner, if the Book of Mormon be true—and millions have now testified that they have the witness of the Spirit that it is indeed true—then one must accept the claims of the Restoration and all that accompanies it.

“Yes, the Book of Mormon is the keystone of our religion—the keystone of our testimony, the keystone of our doctrine, and the keystone in the witness of our Lord and Savior” (A Witness and a Warning, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, 1988, page 19).

To hear someone so remarkable say something so tremendously bold, so overwhelming in its implications, that everything in the Church—everything—rises or falls on the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon and, by implication, the Prophet Joseph Smith’s account of how it came forth, can be a little breathtaking. It sounds like a “sudden death” proposition to me. Either the Book of Mormon is what the Prophet Joseph said it is or this Church and its founder are false, fraudulent, a deception from the first instance onward.

Not everything in life is so black and white, but it seems the authenticity of the Book of Mormon and its keystone role in our belief is exactly that. Either Joseph Smith was the prophet he said he was, who, after seeing the Father and the Son, later beheld the angel Moroni, repeatedly heard counsel from his lips, eventually receiving at his hands a set of ancient gold plates which he then translated according to the gift and power of God—or else he did not. And if he did not, in the spirit of President Benson’s comment, he is not entitled to retain even the reputation of New England folk hero or well-meaning young man or writer of remarkable fiction. No, and he is not entitled to be considered a great teacher or a quintessential American prophet or the creator of great wisdom literature. If he lied about the coming forth of the Book of Mormon, he is certainly none of those.

I feel about this as C. S. Lewis once said about the divinity of Christ: “I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: [that is,] ‘I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept His claim to be God.’ That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic—on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg—or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to” (Mere Christianity, New York: The Macmillan Company, 1960, pages 40–41).

I am suggesting that we make exactly that same kind of do-or-die, bold assertion about the restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ and the divine origins of the Book of Mormon. We have to. Reason and rightness require it. Accept Joseph Smith as a prophet and the book as the miraculously revealed and revered word of the Lord it is, or else consign both man and book to Hades for the devastating deception of it all. But let’s not have any bizarre middle ground about the wonderful contours of a young boy’s imagination or his remarkable facility for turning a literary phrase. That is an unacceptable position to take—morally, literarily, historically, or theologically.

As the word of God has always been—and I testify again that is purely and simply and precisely what the Book of Mormon is—this record is “quick and powerful, sharper than a two-edged sword, to the dividing asunder of both joints and marrow” (D&C 6:2). The Book of Mormon is that quick and that powerful for us. And it certainly is that sharp. Nothing in our history and nothing in our message cuts to the chase faster than our uncompromising declaration that the Book of Mormon is the word of God. On this issue we draw a line in the sand.

May I make it very clear where I stand regarding Joseph Smith, a stance taken because of the Book of Mormon. I testify out of the certainty of my soul that Joseph Smith entertained an angel and received at his hand an ancient set of gold plates. I testify of that as surely as if I had, with the three witnesses, seen the angel Moroni or, with the three and the eight witnesses, seen and handled the plates.

It was the Book of Mormon that changed my life, told me the gospel of Jesus Christ has been restored, and immersed me in the Church, heart and soul. I hold it in a category sacred to me among all the world’s literature. It stands preeminent in my intellectual and spiritual life, the classic of all classics, a reaffirmation of the Holy Bible, a voice from the dust, a witness for Christ, the word of the Lord unto salvation.

he is right, you cannot say "Joe smith was a good fiction writer" or "an inspiring religious author." It is either true, or it isn't there is no middle ground.

This talk is amazing and inspiring to me. The Book of Mormon, authenticates the bible, the Bible also indeed Authenticates the Book of Mormon.

How could a young man, a simple farm boy with little education, produce a book that coincides perfectly, without flaw, to the bible, reinforces it, and vice-versa? Especially in such a short time from the beginning of the transcriptions april 1829 to the first publication in March 1830.

also how in the Book of Isaiah prophesies exactly how the Book of Mormon came to be? that is co-incides exactly how the Book of Mormon came from out of the ground.
Isaiah is speaking about the Decendants of Jacob and Joseph (Nephites)
Isaiah 29:

4 And thou shalt be brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust, and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust.

5 Moreover the multitude of thy strangers shall be like small dust, and the multitude of the terrible ones shall be as chaff that passeth away: yea, it shall be at an instant suddenly.

Isaiah 29:11-19

11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:

12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.

13 ¶ Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.

15 Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the LORD, and their works are in the dark, an