Why Dont Christians Accept the Book of Mormon as Valid? (Jesus, Earth)

[silvermoon383]

While there never was a movie made to counter "The Godmakers" the Church did ask Gilbert Scharffs to write a response to it.

[sojourner]

Originally Posted by Starfish

Verse 3 is about John the Baptist. But you can believe what you choose to believe. Isaiah spoke about the present, past, and future. That's partly why he's so difficult to understand. There are many prophecies in the OT about Christ.

Hindsight is 20/20 and worth about as much as the virtual type I'm using here. It's always a big mistake to attribute any OT prophecies to Jesus, or any NT Biblical character. That certainly was not the intent of the authors. Just because we Xians want to look at them that way (which is a very comforting belief) we'd be pulling the wool over our eyes to think that the OT is in any way "proof" of John's ordination or Jesus' messiahship.

[Starfish]

Originally Posted by sojourner

Hindsight is 20/20 and worth about as much as the virtual type I'm using here. It's always a big mistake to attribute any OT prophecies to Jesus, or any NT Biblical character. That certainly was not the intent of the authors. Just because we Xians want to look at them that way (which is a very comforting belief) we'd be pulling the wool over our eyes to think that the OT is in any way "proof" of John's ordination or Jesus' messiahship.

Please ignore the blue font and the underlining.

Isa. 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Isa. 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mightyGod, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa. 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Num. 24: 17 I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not nigh: there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, and shall smite the corners of Moab, and destroy all the children of Sheth.
Ps. 22:1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
Ps. 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
Ps. 69: 21 They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me avinegar to drink.
Jer. 23: 5 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
Ezek. 37: 12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
Hosea 11: 1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.
Micah 5: 2 But thou, Beth-lehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
Zech. 9: 9 ¶ Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ***, and upon a colt the foal of an ***.
Zech. 11: 13 And the Lord said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the Lord.

[sojourner]

Originally Posted by Starfish

Please ignore the blue font and the underlining.

Isa. 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Isa. 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mightyGod, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa. 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Num. 24: 17 I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not nigh: there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, and shall smite the corners of Moab, and destroy all the children of Sheth.
Ps. 22:1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
Ps. 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
Ps. 69: 21 They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me avinegar to drink.
Jer. 23: 5 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
Ezek. 37: 12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
Hosea 11: 1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.
Micah 5: 2 But thou, Beth-lehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
Zech. 9: 9 ¶ Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ***, and upon a colt the foal of an ***.
Zech. 11: 13 And the Lord said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the Lord.

So what? Doesn't prove anything. Just ask millions of Jews (whose scriptures these are). They will be happy to tell you that these prophecies do not point to Jesus of Nazareth. Prophecy is not proof. It was not intended to be proof. It was intended to foster a world view whose objective is God.

[nutshell]

Sojourner, do you believe the OT points to Christ?

[sojourner]

Originally Posted by nutshell

Sojourner, do you believe the OT points to Christ?

I interpret the prophecies to point to the Messiah. I believe the Messiah to be Jesus. But the authors of the prophecies certainly did not. The prophecies, themselves, do not prove that Jesus is the Messiah. Rather, my belief that Jesus is the Messiah informs my interpretation of the prophecies.

[Starfish]

Originally Posted by sojourner

So what? Doesn't prove anything. Just ask millions of Jews (whose scriptures these are). They will be happy to tell you that these prophecies do not point to Jesus of Nazareth. Prophecy is not proof. It was not intended to be proof. It was intended to foster a world view whose objective is God.

Well since I'm not Jewish, I don't agree with them. However, you are absolutely right--they are the authors of the OT and we are indebted to them for that. And they were God's chosen people. They are descendants of Israel (Jacob) and are entitled to some wonderful blessings.
But at this point they can't acknowledge that Jesus is who their prophets were talking about. The Jews crucified him. Who wants to admit they've been wrong for 2000 years? (BTW--I have great respect for the Jewish people. They've been through a lot.)

The scriptures I quoted are obviously (some more than others) about Christ.

[sojourner]

Originally Posted by Starfish

Well since I'm not Jewish, I don't agree with them. However, you are absolutely right--they are the authors of the OT and we are indebted to them for that. And they were God's chosen people. They are descendants of Israel (Jacob) and are entitled to some wonderful blessings.
But at this point they can't acknowledge that Jesus is who their prophets were talking about. The Jews crucified him. Who wants to admit they've been wrong for 2000 years? (BTW--I have great respect for the Jewish people. They've been through a lot.)

The scriptures I quoted are obviously (some more than others) about Christ.

Obvious to you -- not so obvious to others. In what way can they be definitively said to be about Jesus? Jesus is never mentioned, nor described. These prophecies are about the Messiah -- that much is obvious. And the Jews are still waiting. Just because we think that the Messiah is Jesus doesn't mean that that was the intent of the authors. Therefore, Biblical authorization, in this case, does not exist.

Actually, the Romans crucified Jesus. Jews didn't crucify people.

[Starfish]

Originally Posted by sojourner