Islam: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani: The Promised Messiah or an Imposter? (Jesus Christ, Earth)

[goraya15]

Hey there. This thread is devoted to discussing the claim of Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani or being the Promised Messiah, the Imam Mahdi of the latter days.

First a little background information. Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani was born in India in the early 1800's. This was a time of intense pressure on Islam from a sudden influx of christian missionaries trying to convert the indian populous into Christians, as well as from the local Hindu population.

Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani was the champion of Islam in this age. Before he made his claim as the Imam Mahdi, he was widely regarded as a very learned Muslim, and would constantly be defending Islam by writing numerous articles in response to attacks on Islam by non-muslims. He wrote the first part of his famous book Braheen-i-Ahmadiyya as a comprehensive defence of Islam against contemporary arguments, which shot him almost instantly to the heights of muslim perception. Several people also attempted to accept him as the reformer of the age, but he refused, saying that he had not received word from God that he was the Imam Mahdi. Later on, God revealed to him that he was the Promised Messiah; the Imam Mahdi being awaited for by the Muslims, the second advent of Jesus Christ being awaited by the Christians, and all other second manifestations of earlier prophets being awaited by other peoples. The Promised Messiah wrote dozens of books, showed a great many miracles in his lifetime and converted thousands of people in his lifetime. He is now succeeded by a chain of Caliphs, the current Caliph being Hadhrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad, and a following numbering in the millions.

I will post a few of his prophecies, miracles, revelations and others in a bit.

[TashaN]

Before we start this, i would like to make a comment about the Messiah/Mahdi thing.

We Muslims believe that the Messiah Isa "Jesus" will come and it will be of course, his second coming, but this time he will follow the teaching of Prophet Mohammed. Socendly, the Mahdi is totally someone else than the Messiah. Both will come near the end of this earthly life.

The name of the Messiah is Isa, or Jesus in english.
The name of Al Mahdi will be Mohammed bin Abdullah.

[fullyveiled muslimah]

We should move this to the same faith debates.
In fact I will move it.

[Victor]

*MOD ADVISORY*
IF YOU DO NOT SUBSCRIBE TO THE RELIGION OR IDEOLOGY THAT RELATES TO THE THREAD, PLEASE UNDERSTAND THIS IS FOR SAME FAITH DEBATES ONLY.

[fullyveiled muslimah]

Is it true that Ghulam Ahmadi made any prophecies at all about future events? I ask because I have found some sites, but they are obviously biased against ahmadiyyats. They claim that Ghulam made numerous prophecies all of which didn't pan out. I 'd like to know from you about that. I went to the site www.alislam.org to find some info on that but couldn't. Enlighten me about it.

[goraya15]

Alrite...I was gone for a bit...I'll try to keep this thread updated...but I've been busy lately...

Anyways, there is a lot of controversy around Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, as there was with any messenger that ever came from God. As such, the promised messiah, in addition to the dozens of books he wrote which are a testament to his deep, god given knowledge of religion, showed many miracles.

In regards to prophecies of the future, he expounded many which were fulfilled within his own lifetime. Several of these prophecies were given great media attention as well. As it would be cumbersome to type all of the prophecies out (and would take several pages) I will instead point you in the right direction.

The promised messiah foretold the miserable demise and humiliation of the imposter Dr. Alexander Dowie, who claimed to a prophet from god.

http://www.alislam.org/library/impostor.html

He also foretold of the death of Lekh Ram, a vehement opponent of Islam who took personal offence to the promised messiah.

http://www.alislam.org/library/lekh-ram.htm

Not exactly about the future, but an extraordinary miracle about his mastery of the Arabic language.

http://www.alislam.org/library/links/00000005.html

In addition, he prophecised about the 2 World Wars, about his Promised Son, and Nuclear war, just to mention a few.

I highly suggest that if you want to learn more about the Promised Messiah, Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani, go to Alislam.org.
In particular, an EXCELLENT place to start reading about this messiah of God is from the book the Promised Messiah and Mahdi. It can be found here.

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/promisedmessiah/index.htm?page=1#top

Besides a detailed life sketch, it also puts forth the doctrinal differences between ahmadis and the rest of the muslim word. happy reading.

[TashaN]

Dear Goraya, there is no point in showing any miracle because whether it was Ghulam or any other man, they wouldn't stand a chance in front of a great deceiver like the Dajal, because he can kill people and raise people from the dead, and can travel in moments around the whole world, gives gold, food, and good to who so ever follow him and make those who disbelieve in him regret it.

I'm more interested in answering my questions in my pervious post (post #2) if you don't mind, because it deals with the concept in the first place, you better leave the little details for later on discussions.

Thank you.

[goraya15]

certainly truth. Let me first clear up your misconceptions about the dajjal. The prophecy speaks of a giant one eyed monster, head in the clouds, riding a giant donkey, who will be able to travel swiftly between continents. Is it just me or does this sound perposterous if you take it in the literal sense? If you take it as figurative language though, you can see that the prophecy speaks about a certain Age of man, and not of a real monster. The metal eyes of the giant, satellites. The stupid animal he rides with incredible speed, none other then lifeless, mindless machines like airplanes and trains. I could go on, but that's for another thread.

In regards to the second post, I did not know that you posted is as a question, I merely thought you were expounded your doctrines. Anywhoo...I'll attempt to explain my views on the subject.

First of all, the qur'an has claimed about Jesus Christ that he was a prophet to the people of Israel. To believe that the Qur'an would contradict itself and send Jesus himself to the followers of Muhammad would be a disgrace to the followers of Muhammad. Think about it. By sending down a prophet of old, Allah would basically be saying that there is no muslim left in the word pious enough for the mantle of prophethood, thus the only person left is a follower of Moses. Was not the Holy Prophet the best of teachers, greater then Moses also? To infer that Allah would send down a prophet of old who did not even follow Islam to reform the muslims is not right. Does not Allah say in the Holy Qur'an that Allah raises prophets in people from among themselves?

Secondly, the names that you gave that would identify the Mahdi and Messiah. In other words, Isa (Jesus) and Muhammad Ibn Abdullah (i.e. he would be named as the son of abdullah, Muhammad, was named).

Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani was named as both Isa by God in many revelation and, as you can see, he was also named Ahmad, which was also a name of the Holy Prophet of Islam. But as you know, the true test to see if someone is a prophet of God is to look at their life, miracles and evidence they show in support of themselves, etc. That is what I was trying to from the get go, as it seemed most productive to display solid facts first in front of skeptics before going deeper into past prophecies.

[TashaN]

Originally Posted by goraya15

certainly truth. Let me first clear up your misconceptions about the dajjal. The prophecy speaks of a giant one eyed monster, head in the clouds, riding a giant donkey, who will be able to travel swiftly between continents. Is it just me or does this sound perposterous if you take it in the literal sense?

Where did you take this describtion from?

Believe me, if i were you, i wouldn't be able to believe this literally, but you have to see that in the hadith of Prophet Mohammed about the Dajjal to know the real describtion of him, not what you mentioned in here. If you can't find that hadith so i'll try to find it for you.

Anyway, even if what you said about him was true, so that doesn't mean you can dismiss it as a mere myth or as being a *misinterpretation*.

In regards to the second post, I did not know that you posted is as a question, I merely thought you were expounded your doctrines. Anywhoo...I'll attempt to explain my views on the subject.

Hmmm, i don't know really where to start in answering to this, because there is a lot of misconceptions in here that i'll have to clarify about this views of yours regarding Jesus and the Muslims.

First of all, the qur'an has claimed about Jesus Christ that he was a prophet to the people of Israel. To believe that the Qur'an would contradict itself and send Jesus himself to the followers of Muhammad would be a disgrace to the followers of Muhammad. Think about it. By sending down a prophet of old, Allah would basically be saying that there is no muslim left in the word pious enough for the mantle of prophethood, thus the only person left is a follower of Moses.

First of all, who told you that Jesus will be sent to the Muslims?

God will send him to his own people (Jews and Christians) to tell them about his real identity. Secondly, it wouldn't be disgrace to no muslim on this earth to see Jesus Christ, because we love him so much as we love all the other prophets of God, that's ONLY IF he will be sent to us, but he will not be so. One of his main missions is to kill the Dajjal "anti-Christ", and a clear cut of your worries have been answered by prophet Mohammed in one of the hadiths when he mentioned Jesus and Al-Mahdi, and he mentioned clearly that the Muslims out of respect and love for Jesus will ask him to lead them in the prayer at the mosque, but he will refuse saying that our "we muslims" ummah's gift is that we lead each other so Al-Mahdi will lead the prayer, not Jesus, because prophet Mohammed have perfected this religion before he pass away and as you said, no need to send more prophets to us because it was clearly mentioned that Allah have perfected this religion by sending Mohammed to us.

Was not the Holy Prophet the best of teachers, greater then Moses also?

No, we don't believe in this. As Muslims, we don't distanguish between one prophet and another as we were instructed by Allah in the Quran. Its true that Mohammed was a great Messengeer of God, but i don't have a tiny doubt in my heart that Mohammed will ever mention that he was greater than any other Prophet. Actually, its quite the opposite, because he mentioned so many times how great those prophets who were before him were.

To infer that Allah would send down a prophet of old who did not even follow Islam to reform the muslims is not right. Does not Allah say in the Holy Qur'an that Allah raises prophets in people from among themselves?

Here is another misconception. Jesus was a muslim as was Abraham before him. You just have to read the Quran to know that.

Try to find for me a single verse in the Quran stating that Jesus was either a Jew or a Christian.

Secondly, the names that you gave that would identify the Mahdi and Messiah. In other words, Isa (Jesus) and Muhammad Ibn Abdullah (i.e. he would be named as the son of abdullah, Muhammad, was named).

Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani was named as both Isa by God in many revelation and, as you can see, he was also named Ahmad, which was also a name of the Holy Prophet of Islam. But as you know, the true test to see if someone is a prophet of God is to look at their life, miracles and evidence they show in support of themselves, etc. That is what I was trying to from the get go, as it seemed most productive to display solid facts first in front of skeptics before going deeper into past prophecies.

You missed my point. If you are talking about Islam, then you will know by now that Isa and Mahdi are two different people.

And no, these miracles you talk about it are nothing compared to any other person who came before Ghulam who claimed they were prophets and he is nothing compared to what the anti-Christ can do as i said before. I think it would be better if Ghulam simply idenified himself as a new prophet for a new religion instead of claiming something which no decent muslim will accept. Its clear as the sun that Mohammed was the last prophet and he mentioned those who will claim they were prophets after him. Therefore, i have no reason to believe that there will be anymore prophets after Mohammed because they have nothing to offer.