Your views on Alcohol: ALL Christians, trinitarian, unitarian or anyone claiming to b (Jesus Christ, Latter-Day Saints)

[doppelgänger]

Originally Posted by angellous_evangellous

Yeah... that would be killing, not murder.

Actually, I prefer the term "involuntary recycling of biological material." Then I can do it with impunity.

[sojourner]

Originally Posted by CaptainXeroid

1. My personal belief and one that many Disciples share is that the problem is not alcohol per se, but rather the abuse of it. When people spend grocery or rent/mortgage money on alcohol or start withdrawing from family and friends because they'd rather get drunk, then they have a real serious problem.
2. I believe so. Jesus turned water into wine AND admonished those who were who drunkards.
3. Our church uses grape juice instead of wine and forbids alcohol in any church property. I've shared a beer with our pastor. We were at a Super Bowl party with friends from our church and from other sources. We had plenty of food, and nobody got drunk. Some people did not drink, and we respected their choice. I guess you could say it is partly based on social pressures in that if there is no alcohol in the church, no one will feel pressured to drink it.
4. Yes. We have several recovering alcoholics in our congregation, and our church hosts AA meetings. The purpose of the Lord's Supper is to recognize Jesus' sacrifice that unites us as Christians. What matters is that we come to the table. The liquid we use to symbolize the blood is secondary. If some people are uncomfortable with wine, there is no harm in using a non-alcoholic drink. We also fill some communion cups with water at the request of some diabetic members. I'm very comfortable with that action as well.

This may be a better question for the Disciples forum, but it's cogent here, too.

What about those of us who are uncomfortable with something that is not real wine? Does it not undermine the inclusiveness of the Table to limit our choices of what is meaningful for us?

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by doppelgänger

Actually, I prefer the term "involuntary recycling of biological material." Then I can do it with impunity.

If you can live with that kind of self-actualization, fine.

It's not mine.

[sojourner]

Anything?! Like murder, adultery, and lying?

These are, by definition, extreme.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Scuba Pete

Katzpur or Becky,

Could you provide the precise reading on this for us? Becky gave us a link to the ENTIRE text, but I would like to see it narrowed down just a tad. Thanks in advance.

The entire text isn't that all that long, Pete. I'm not sure how I could narrow it down. I have put in in paragraph form for you and removed all of the footnotes for easier reading, though:

The Doctrine & Covenants, Section 89: Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, February 27, 1833. As a consequence of the early brethren using tobacco in their meetings, the Prophet was led to ponder upon the matter; consequently he inquired of the Lord concerning it. This revelation, known as the Word of Wisdom, was the result. The first three verses were originally written as an inspired introduction and description by the Prophet.

"A word of Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—to be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom, showing forth the order and will of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—given for a principle with promise, adapted to the capacity of the weak and the weakest of all saints, who are or can be called saints.

Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—that inasmuch as any man drinketh wine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him. And, behold, this should be wine, yea, pure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make. And, again, strong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies. And again, tobacco is not for the body, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill. And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.

And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving. Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly; and it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.

All grain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth; and these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger. All grain is good for the food of man; as also the fruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.


And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones; and shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures; and shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint. And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen."

If you have any questions, I'll be happy to answer them, but I just didn't know how to condense it.

[SoyLeche]

It is a *vile* drink that turns even the most respectable men into complete scoundrels.

[Victor]

Originally Posted by James the Persian

I'd echo this. The only thing I'd add is that a small amount of wine, in the Eucharist, is not just fine, but required, and, yes, this is totally consistent with Scripture (I won't say Scripturally based as that doesn't really work in our faith). And no, it certainly wasn't grape juice that was used at the Last Supper.

James

*echo echo*

[dawny0826]

Originally Posted by Scuba Pete

OK, there are SOOOO MANY reactions to alcohol within Christendom...

1. What DO you believe?
2. Is it scripturally based?
3. Is it based on social pressures?
4. Are you comfortable with how your congregation views alcohol???

1. Light alcohol consumption (red wine) can actually be good for your health. And clearly, Christ didn't have an issue with alcohol as He Himself enjoyed it.

Alcoholism is a serious problem. In addition to health hazards, the effects can have a negative effect on one's relationship with Christ.

However,I'm sure many alcoholics have FOUND Christ when hitting rock bottom (as a result of their alcoholism) so who am I to judge?

One chooses where alcohol stands in their life. Personally, I enjoy a good Long Island Iced Tea or a shot of tequila every now and then. I enjoy drinking with my husband, friends and family.

2. I don't recall biblical scripture which states that one can't drink. Naturally, it's sinful to place ANYTHING before Christ. I don't think that the lush is any more or less sinful than a thief or a liar. Sin is sin.

3. Social pressures have little to do with my opinion on alcohol.

4. The church that I've most recently attended service at doesn't have a formal stance on alcohol. My sister just married the Pastor's son and my Dad plays golf the Pasto