The LDS "Articles of Faith" (Jesus Christ, ritual, Latter-Day Saints)

[nutshell]

Since BT is offline, I will attempt to stand in his place and debate this with you.

Aruging point 2:

1. Rom. 5: 14
   14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s atransgression, who is the bfigure of him that was to come.
   

[Katzpur]

Bible Truth,

I realize it may appear as if we are all ganging up on you. Hopefully, your fellow Evangelical Christians will show up soon to provide you with some back-up. It's always hard to address the posts of three or four different people without some help from others who believe as you do.

Seriously, though, if you really want to engage in this debate, it's not going to do you much good to simply post verse after verse of scripture. Since we also believe the Bible to be God's word, we could do exactly the same thing. Why don't you take the time to explain how you believe these scriptures prove our doctrines to be false? That's what we're looking for.

And again, please start with the first Article of Faith since you believe it to be inconsistent with what the Bible teaches. Yes, a correct understanding of the Fall is critical to our faith, but there is nothing more important than our belief in God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost.

(I hope the other Latter-day Saints who are participating will support me in this request and not allow this debate to progress to the second Article of Faith until we have finished discussing the first one.)

[nutshell]

Personally, I don't care which one he starts with. I just want some reasoning/substance behind random scripture quoting.

[Comprehend]

Honestly, I don't see how he is going to argue with the 1st article of faith. It simply says we believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost... Is BT going to say that one of them does not exist?

What he really wants to argue about is *what* we believe about them, not *whether* they exist.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Comprehend

What he really wants to argue about is *what* we believe about them, not *whether* they exist.

I know, but since the first Article of Faith does not elaborate on the details of what we believe about them, I want to know what it is about it that he objects to. He said he wants to debate the truth of the Articles of Faith using the Bible only. If our first Article of Faith contradicts something in the Bible, he should be able to show us what it is.

[nutshell]

39 (But this spake he of the aSpirit, which they that believe on him should receive: bfor the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
40 ¶ Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the aProphet.

41 Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee?

[bible truth]

Originally Posted by bible truth

"The Articles of Faith" of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.

The fall of mankind is an extremely big topic that will affect everything else that you will believe. We are trying to discuss our relationship to the first Adam. Your understanding of your relationship of the first Adam will be carried over to your understanding of your relationship with the 2nd Adam (Jesus Christ). Let's start by asking: why do all men die (including infants)? Please try to answer in context to Romans 5 and Summary of Belief 2. - BT
.

Could you guys please try to answer my questions from my previous post. It seems you guys are putting so many demands on me without even trying to answer an honest question. All have sinned in Adam according to Romans 5 and 1 Cor 15 (posted earlier). The Article of Faith appears to say otherwise. Here are two additional Bible verses that show that we all sinned in Adam. - BT

Psalm 58:3:
3 Even from birth the wicked go astray;
from the womb they are wayward and speak lies.

Psalm 51:5: (David)
5 Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

[nutshell]

Originally Posted by bible truth

Could you guys please try to answer my questions from my previous post. It seems you guys are putting so many demands on me without even trying to answer an honest question. All have sinned in Adam according to Romans 5 and 1 Cor 15 (posted earlier). The Article of Faith appears to say otherwise. Here are two additional Bible verses that show that we all sinned in Adam. - BT

Psalm 58:3:
3 Even from birth the wicked go astray;
from the womb they are wayward and speak lies.

Psalm 51:5: (David)
5 Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

We believe that the fall of Adam resulted in sin and death. We can only overcome these two things through Christ. However, at judgment, we will be punished for our own sins and not punished for Adam eating the forbidden fruit.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by bible truth

Could you guys please try to answer my questions from my previous post. It seems you guys are putting so many demands on me without even trying to answer an honest question.

I'll respond to this question after you respond to mine.