Justification, Faith alone, faith and good works or good works alone? (Jesus Christ, Creator)

[*Paul*]

Originally Posted by bible truth

Paul and I proclaim the same gospel of God revealed through Scripture alone. We are very like minded brothers in Christ. I would like to add that we are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, by the person and work of Christ alone. I believe Romans Chapter 6, being baptized into Christ, is a necessary reality. However, the true baptism revealed in Romans 6, is a spiritual baptism done by God alone. This spiritual baptism is the reality of being united to Christ and is separate and distinct than water baptism done by men. - BT

That's absolutely right, i'm glad we agree on this, we are baptised by the Spirit into the body of Christ, the outward baptism should show what has taken place inwardly in the believer.

[*Paul*]

Originally Posted by athanasius

Funny you do not acept Catholic as christians borthers and sisters yet you quote from St Gregory of Nyssa who was a great Catholic early church Father.

If everyone listened to what Gregory is saying here then when we wouldn't be divided but sanctified by the truth, "Thy word is Truth."

[wizanda]

James (2:14-26) Vs Paul (Rom 3:27-31) explains it well...the quote is taken twice of the same story...Paul's is incorrect and also stands against Christ and the rest of the Bible, as Grace was cut off by Yeshua as related in the Zechariah 11 prophecy he fulfilled.

Here is an Article where I tried to summarize this earlier, yet none are watching.

[Bishka]

Originally Posted by *Paul*

Not me, I love James and I do not find it contradictory to my faith alone belief either, I will explain shortly. It's not as though none of us saw that scripture coming.

Yet it clearly says 'faith without works is dead,' yet the LDS Church and Catholic Church gets constantly blasted for believing this. I wonder why......

[wizanda]

Mat 24:48-50
(48) But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
(49) And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
(50) The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

(defend you = )

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by *Paul*

Not me, I love James and I do not find it contradictory to my faith alone belief either, I will explain shortly. It's not as though none of us saw that scripture coming.

And it's not as if the rest of us can't see your explanation coming. Let's see how close I come...

Once we're saved, we just automatically start doing good works. It's not as if we have a choice in the matter or that we continue to be tempted, and occasionally succumb. Good works are simply the natural and irresistable result of being saved. To claim that a Christian could actually choose to be either obedient or disobedient once he has been saved is an afront to Christ. If we are among the chosen, we are compelled to do good deeds and cannot therefore be seen doing so of our own accord.

How'd I do?

[FFH]

Paul,

Ephesians 2 is easily misunderstood by many Christians...

We cannot save ourselves, "lest any man boast," by our good works alone. See Ephesians 2: 9 and 10

Verse 10 is neglected, while verse 9 is emphasized, which is a common thing for men to do in order to justify their beliefs and actions...

Christ requires obedience to his commandements [works] while at the same time he recognizes the need for an atoning sacrifice to wash away sins and transgressions agsinst his laws, which takes trusting in Christ's atoning sacrifice [faith], and repentance, obedience, to His commandments, and enduring to the end [good works].

Both are neded in order to be saved in the kingdom of heaven with God.

To preach otherwise is to deny the need to do anything at all other than just sit in our homes and do nothing but have faith in Christ.

Christ will accept no such person in his kingdom.

There are many things required of us in order to enter into the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 2: 10

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We need Jesus Christ's atonement, along with our good works, in order to be saved in the kingdom of heaven with God the Father and his son Jesus Christ.

We cannot save ourselves by faith in Jesus Christ [alone] or by our good works [alone]..

That's all Christ is saying in Ephesians 2

[*Paul*]

Originally Posted by beckysoup61

James 2:26
"26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."
This pretty much sums it up for me.

Jms 2v17-18: Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Is he saying I will shew thee my faith and works by my works?
No it is still faith he is attempting to show by his works to another person in this hypothetical conversation. He is talking of justification of his faith before men here. There is no mention of being justified before God.

Jms 2v19-20: Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

He goes on to show that there are two kinds of faith, saving faith and the faith that devils have.
Saving faith will prove itself in the life of the believer, it will change him and his profession will be justified before men he will be able to show his faith by his works because true faith produces holiness in the believer.
On the other hand you have people who draw near to God with their mouths but their heart is far from him, they profess a belief in God, they acknowledge His existence, even that Jesus is His Son but that is all it is, a mental agreement with the facts. This type of faith is a deluding and deceiving faith, luring people in to a false sense of security thinking that they can do what they want in this life so long as they beieve in God.

Jms 2v21-23: Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

He was known by his works and found to be justified. He speaks not here of the causes of justification, but by what effects we may know that a man is justified this the topic in this often used passage. The faith was declared to be a true faith, through works how else would anyone know?
Verse 23 reminds us how Abraham recieved his justification from God, He believed God, (faith).

Jms 2v24: Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Ahh the big one, no? With all that has been written in mind it is showing how by works a man is proved to be just before men and does not have the kind of dead faith that devils have for which James is warning his target audience of here.

Jms 2v26: For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
The conclusion?: faith does not bring forth fruits and works is not faith, but a dead carcass. In other words if you say you believe in God and He has justified you, prove it! Not by your elequent words but by your works, this is no different to what Paul is saying all through his letters.

Eph 2v10: For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Note the new creature is first created in Christ Jesus unto or to bring forth good works.

Ti 3v5: Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Ti 3v6: Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Ti 3v7: That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Saved in spite of our works but because of God's mercy and grace, by the washing of regeneration (or being made a new creature / being born again which is the work in us of the Holy Ghost)
Ti 3v8: This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
Again belief in God should be maintained and accompanied by good works.

Can you be saved before you have even done one good work? How do you receive the gift of salvation?
Eph 2v8-9: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Pay close attention to the order here: By grace (God's unmerited favour) through faith. In other words you are able to recieve Gods gracious gift of salvation through the operation of faith. It is not of works! Boasting is forbidden! This salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone should bring forth good works to the glory of God alone:
Eph 2v10: For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.