christian - what is good? (Jesus, genesis, America, experience)

[Baerly]

Originally Posted by comprehend

Is what we call *good* good independant of God or because of God?

in other words, does God determine what is good or recognize what is good?

what is good?

Originally Posted by comprehend

Is what we call *good* good independant of God or because of God?

in other words, does God determine what is good or recognize what is good?

what is good?

This is a great question.

In (Romans 1:15,16) We learn that the gospel is the power to save. But notice the very next verse which says, therin is the righteousness of God.

(1Cor.15:1-2) says - I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you,which also ye have received,and wherein ye stand: 2.By which ye are saved IF ye keep in memory what I have preached unto you.

He that doeth righteousness is righteous (1John 3;7).

In (Titus 2:11,12) we find that the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12.Teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lust we should live,soberly, righteously and godly in this present world.

So it was by grace that something was delivered which would teach man how to live righteously (right or good). That which was delivered by revelation to the apostles was the New Testament Covenant (John 14:26 ; 16:13). That N.T. was delivered during the apostles lifetime and they received ALL of it according to these passages. It was delivered ONCE (Jude 3). The apostle Peter said we have all things pertaining to life and godliness (2Peter 1:3). So the bible alone is our guide to heaven according to the words which were delivered to the apostles (John 14:26 ; 16:13 ; 12:48)

We learn that doing evil is darkness and doing truth is coming to the light in (John 3:19-21) (1John 1:6,7). We learn in this verse that God tells us what is evil (Darkness) and what is righteousness (Light). So it is no doubt God that informs man what is good and what is evil.

Now the question is, what is truth? If we find out what truth is we can go about doing righteousness (being right or good). The bible says Sanctify them through thy truth;Thy word is truth (John 17:17).

That truth was delivered by Jesus to the apostles during their lifetime. The apostles wrote that truth down in letters which we now call the New Testament. It (the N.T.) guides (or teaches) us in living right before God. The New Testament (the words of Jesus) will be our Judge in the end (John 12:48).

in love Baerly

[Mister Emu]

What is good?

Whatever God says is good.

[athanasius]

I would argue that things and people are good because of God. God makes good things not trash.

Just my 2 cents.

[Ryft]

Originally Posted by comprehend

Is what we call *good* good independant of God or because of God? in other words, does God determine what is good or recognize what is good? what is good?

Is a thing moral because God commands it, or does God command it because it's moral? When I see questions like this, I begin to have visions of Socrates and Euthyphro having a conversation (q.v. Plato's dialogue "Euthyphro" in his The Last Days of Socrates), for it is the essense of the very question Socrates asked of him. This dilemma, however, is soundly answered by Christian theology.

When it comes to ethics, Christianity maintains that God is the ultimate ground of moral order; i.e. it is God himself, in his holy and righteous nature, that is the ground of moral order. We do not say a thing is moral because God commands it, nor do we say that God commands something because it is moral; both statements fall prey to the Euthyphro dilemma. Morality is not an arbitrary function of God's power nor is it a part of some higher court to which God himself is subject. David Hume did not realize that in reality the Euthyphro dilemma commits the bifurcation fallacy. There is a third option that critics of Christian theism nearly always miss, and it goes back to how I had phrased the matter.

An objective moral standard exists (this avoids the first horn of the dilemma), but this standard is not external to God; rather, it is internal to God (this avoids the second horn of the dilemma). God himself is the ground of moral order. As Gregory Koukl states, morality is grounded in the immutable nature of God, whose laws are not arbitrary whims but rooted in His holy and righteous nature. As Scott Rae concluded, "Morality is not grounded ultimately in God's commands but in His character, which then expresses itself in His commands." In other words, a thing is determined to be 'good' by the degree of its relationship to God's righteous nature which we have expressed prescriptively through his law (and 'evil' becomes a privative term expressing any want of conformity with such).

[Baerly]

Virtue (2 Peter 1:5)
by Allan McNabb

Virtue begins with becoming a Christian

Moral excellence begins with diligent faith (2 Pet. 1:5). Since faith demands hearing and obeying God's word (Rom. 10:17; Heb. 11:1f), the first step toward moral excellence is obedience to God in repentance from sin, confession of Christ, and baptism into Christ for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38; 8:37-38; Rom. 6:3).

At the time we repent, we turn away from sin to obediently serve God. Therefore, we are baptized making our appeal to God for a good conscience (1Pet. 3:21). With a good conscience, we begin a morally excellent life. Unbelievers, on the other hand, are not morally excellent since they do not believe and have not appealed to God for a good conscience.

God's word sets the standard for morality, virtue

Virtue is moral excellence. God is absolute virtue (excellence, 2 Pet. 1:3). Therefore, God sets the standard for virtue. Since God has given us all things that pertain to life and godliness (2 Pet. 1:3), He has given us the standard for moral excellence in His word (2 Tim. 3:16-17).

Society dictates neither morality nor virtue. We cannot live by the world's standard of morality and expect to go to heaven (Is. 55:8-9; 1 Cor. 1:18f). A virtuous life is the result of hearing God's word, believing God's word, and obeying God's word (Rom. 10:17; Heb. 5:9). When we live according to the law and doctrine of Christ, we are virtuous (Gal. 6:2; Col. 3:17; 2 Jn. 9).

Christians grow spiritually, in virtue

As a babe in Christ, we feed upon the pure milk of the word and begin growing spiritually (1 Pet. 2:2). As growing babes, we thoroughly learn the first principles and move on to perfection (Heb. 5:12f; 2 Tim. 3:16-17). As we grow in knowledge (2 Pet. 1:5), we change our lives to live according to all that we know about God and His will. Every time we change to better serve God, we become more virtuous.

As we grow spiritually, we grow in:

faith (2 Pet. 1:5) Therefore, we become increasingly virtuous.
knowledge (2 Pet. 1:5) Therefore, we become increasingly virtuous.
self-control (2 Pet. 1:6) Therefore, we become increasingly virtuous.
perseverance (2 Pet. 1:6) Therefore, we become increasingly virtuous.
godliness (2 Pet. 1:6) Therefore, we become increasingly virtuous.
brotherly kindness (2 Pet. 1:7) Therefore, we become increasingly virtuous.
love (2 Pet. 1:7) Therefore, we become increasingly virtuous.


Christians meditate on virtuous things

A Christian's life is a life of virtue (2 Pet. 1:5). Therefore, Paul commands us to think on things which are virtuous (Phil. 4:8). We cannot allow our minds to dwell upon evil and expect to live virtuously before God. "Evil company corrupts good habits" (1 Cor. 15:33). If our mind is in the gutter, we cannot live a virtuous life.

Christians can never escape all of the negative influences of sin (1 Cor.5:9ff). But, we must work very hard to keep from dwelling on the sin that surrounds us as we interact with people of the world. We can never allow ourselves to gleefully entertain the pleasures of unrighteousness in our minds (2 Th. 2:11-12; 2 Tim. 3:1-4). To do so is sin (cf. Matt. 5:27-30).

Virtue is more valuable than worldly wealth

Solomon said, "Who can find a virtuous wife? For her worth is far above rubies" (Pr. 31:10).

Solomon's rhetorical question implies that a virtuous woman is extremely difficult to find. This is not just applicable to women, but virtuous people in general are difficult to find. In the time of Noah, there were only eight virtuous people on the earth (1 Pet. 3:20). And Jesus tells us that few people will be saved (Matt. 7:13-14) denoting that only a few virtuous people will ever live on earth.

A virtuous wife is worth much more than rubies. We have an abundance of rubies compared to the number of virtuous women on the earth. Therefore, a virtuous woman far outweighs the value of rubies. Generally speaking, virtue is more valuable than worldly wealth. A virtuous life results in eternal life, but worldly wealth is temporal (cf. Matt. 6:19-21; Ja. 5:1-6).

We will behold God's absolute virtue

Absolute virtue (excellence) is possessed by God (2 Pet. 1:3). As God's children, we strive to imitate Him each and every day (cf. Matt. 5:48).

One day, Christians will behold absolute perfection and virtue in heaven while worshiping before God's throne. Take a moment and think about your life. Are you a virtuous person? Will you eternally live in the midst of absolute virtue while worshiping before God's throne? Or, will you only get a brief glimpse of God's virtue as you stand condemned before the judgment seat of Christ (2 Cor. 5:10)?
Virtue (2 Peter 1:5)
by Allan McNabb

The apostle Peter commands, "add to your faith virtue" (NKJV, 2 Pet. 1:5). The New American Standard Version translates this Scripture saying, "in your faith supply moral excellence." "Virtue," in Second Peter 1:5, means "moral excellence" or "moral goodness." The aim of this article is to explain the virtuous character that Christians must possess.

Virtue begins with becoming a Christian

Moral excellence begins with diligent faith (2 Pet. 1:5). Since faith demands hearing and obeying God's word (Rom. 10:17; Heb. 11:1f), the first step toward moral excellence is obedience to God in repentance from sin, confession of Christ, and baptism into Christ for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38; 8:37-38; Rom. 6:3).

At the time we repent, we turn away from sin to obediently serve God. Therefore, we are baptized making our appeal to God for a good conscience (1Pet. 3:21). With a good conscience, we begin a morally excellent life. Unbelievers, on the other hand, are not morally excellent since they do not believe and have not appealed to God for a good conscience.

God's word sets the standard for morality, virtue

Virtue is moral excellence. God is absolute virtue (excellence, 2 Pet. 1:3). Therefore, God sets the standard for virtue. Since God has given us all things that pertain to life and godliness (2 Pet. 1:3), He has given us the standard for moral excellence in His word (2 Tim. 3:16-17).

Society dictates neither morality nor virtue. We cannot live by the world's standard of morality and expect to go to heaven (Is. 55:8-9; 1 Cor. 1:18f). A virtuous life is the result of hearing God's word, believing God's word, and obeying God's word (Rom. 10:17; Heb. 5:9). When we live according to the law and doctrine of Christ, we are virtuous (Gal. 6:2; Col. 3:17; 2 Jn. 9).

Christians grow spiritually, in virtue

As a babe in Christ, we feed upon the pure milk of the word and begin growing spiritually (1 Pet. 2:2). As growing babes, we thoroughly learn the first principles and move on to perfection (Heb. 5:12f; 2 Tim. 3:16-17). As we grow in knowledge (2 Pet. 1:5), we change our lives to live according to all that we know about God and His will. Every time we change to better serve God, we become more virtuous.

As we grow spiritually, we grow in:

faith (2 Pet. 1:5) Therefore, we become increasingly virtuous.
knowledge (2 Pet. 1:5) Therefore, we become increasingly virtuous.
self-control (2 Pet. 1:6) Therefore, we become increasingly virtuous.
perseverance (2 Pet. 1:6) Therefore, we become increasingly virtuous.
godliness (2 Pet. 1:6) Therefore, we become increasingly virtuous.
brotherly kindness (2 Pet. 1:7) Therefore, we become increasingly virtuous.
love (2 Pet. 1:7) Therefore, we become increasingly virtuous.


Christians meditate on virtuous things

A Christian's life is a life of virtue (2 Pet. 1:5). Therefore, Paul commands us to think on things which are virtuous (Phil. 4:8). We cannot allow our minds to dwell upon evil and expect to live virtuously before God. "Evil company corrupts good habits" (1 Cor. 15:33). If our mind is in the gutter, we cannot live a virtuous life.

Christians can never escape all of the negative influences of sin (1 Cor.5:9ff). But, we must work very hard to keep from dwelling on the sin that surrounds us as we interact with people of the world. We can never allow ourselves to gleefully entertain the pleasures of unrighteousness in our minds (2 Th. 2:11-12; 2 Tim. 3:1-4). To do so is sin (cf. Matt. 5:27-30).

Virtue is more valuable than worldly wealth

Solomon said, "Who can find a virtuous wife? For her worth is far above rubies" (Pr. 31:10).

Solomon's rhetorical question implies that a virtuous woman is extremely difficult to find. This is not just applicable to women, but virtuous people in general are difficult to find. In the time of Noah, there were only eight virtuous people on the earth (1 Pet. 3:20). And Jesus tells us that few people will be saved (Matt. 7:13-14) denoting that only a few virtuous people will ever live on earth.

A virtuous wife is worth much more than rubies. We have an abundance of rubies compared to the number of virtuous women on the earth. Therefore, a virtuous woman far outweighs the value of rubies. Generally speaking, virtue is more valuable than worldly wealth. A virtuous life results in eternal life, but worldly wealth is temporal (cf. Matt. 6:19-21; Ja. 5:1-6).

We will behold God's absolute virtue

Absolute virtue (excellence) is possessed by God (2 Pet. 1:3). As God's children, we strive to imitate Him each and every day (cf. Matt. 5:48).

One day, Christians will behold absolute perfection and virtue in heaven while worshiping before God's throne. Take a moment and think about your life. Are you a virtuous person? Will you eternally live in the midst of absolute virtue while worshiping before God's throne? Or, will you only get a brief glimpse of God's virtue as you stand condemned before the judgment seat of Christ (2 Cor. 5:10)?

in love Baerly

[Colabomb]

Whether God Created good, or God is good based on something else is irrelevant.

All that matters is that God IS INDEED Good in all senses of the word.